NSW Corvettes

Technical Tips => Electrical-Electronics-Air-Lighting-Guages-Security-Vacuum => Topic started by: Vettech on June 06, 2020, 03:34:44 PM

Title: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 06, 2020, 03:34:44 PM
Been doing a lot of work on the 87 - all coolant related, but it was initially caused by the Heater Matrix giving up the ghost.

Now a lot of interested parties have suggested that I forget the heater and just by-pass, this cry grew when the Oil Cooler (KC4) was found tobe RS. After much-a-do, the oil cooler has been repaired (tks Bfit), new water pump, new hoses and metal lines, new brackets and a now new Heater matrix has arrived.

For normal LH drive cars, HM removal is time expensive and requires the removal of an unseen, invisable, ridiculously hard to get to 7mm bolt. But thats on LH this has been converted to RH drive.

Its taken me four days to get it out, of course not full on, I worked till desperation, back ache and blood loss caused me to quit.

Between hidden screws, and god only knows what was holding it in, I finally got the heater casing apart and out, but even then there were more hidden screws holding the core in place, once found and removed, it still would not retract from the fire wall, so a block of wood and an Engineers 2 1/2lb Ball pein hammer finally did the trick. But once it was out, and casing and core fully inspected, I could find No REASON why it did not come easily out.



Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 06, 2020, 03:39:10 PM
Old and new and persuader.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 06, 2020, 03:50:38 PM
This case has been modified with a section removed to allow the case to fit up behind the aluminium cross member which supports the Dash but also supports and re-enforces the two A Pillars. Once hidden screws, glue, hooks and clips removed it has tobe helped out past the cross member. The removed section has an infill which squares it off, sealing the case around the cross member. This piece is f/glass, rivets and epoxy. 
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 06, 2020, 03:56:09 PM
Another shot - this time inside of the front half of the heater casing.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 06, 2020, 04:12:55 PM
Another shot. The cross member and to the right the housing feeds the ducts and vent distribution behind the centre dash/consul.
In the centre is an orange square section - this is the blend door, which mixes the cold A/C with warm air. This is operated by the metal rod and electric servo.

To the left is a mass of bibs and bobs, cables etc which obscure the two holes in the fire wall where the heater core pipes go to the engine.

I just love puzzles. P.S note the centre of cross member has a curved upward section, this is where the original steering column would have been.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Bfit on June 06, 2020, 06:03:12 PM
There you go I knew a hammer and a saw would extract it .
Bfit
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: sirfixalot on June 06, 2020, 07:12:53 PM
That was one of the many things I did while fixing all the bad workmanship on my C4 that the heater box side could be removed & heater removed with cross member in place
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 06, 2020, 07:36:19 PM
Hammer yes - but no saw.

On Sunday's run, maybe talk with you sirfixalot.

Tks.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: gtc on June 06, 2020, 08:47:38 PM
There you go I knew a hammer and a saw would extract it .

That's what my dentist said as he handed me the bill.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 08, 2020, 12:55:30 PM
Geoff, after talking with you on Sunday, I'm now worried, maybe I missunderstood.

See pic (engine side) with fan removed - mine always has a rubber hose hanging out of the fan - I assumed to drain condensate from motor when A/C located on the original RH side. One end always just hung down, now everthing is out of the way,, you can see a plastic spigot or nub with the corrogated tubing squashed around it. I thought this is opportunity to remove fan & turn 180 and have drain at bottom.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 08, 2020, 01:04:53 PM
But the fan casing is not symetrical, goes in one way only, then the penny dropped , the hose s not a drain,  it connects from motor to the airbox plastic spigot, and cool air is forced around and thru the motor internals, keeping it cool. So to you....
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 08, 2020, 01:13:39 PM
Now because of conversion there is no longer outside air coming in.
The fan picks up all air from inside the cab and re-circulates. Efficient for A/C.

But (see pic) under the pass footwell you can see 3 holes - 2 for heater matrix and a large oval hole thru which you can see the tyres tread.
Normally the fan/blades/motor would fill this spot and once that fan goes back in place, that hole is filled and sealed, BUT ! Once fan re-instated you should see with the help of a strong light, the squirrel cage fan blades. Which could have a filter over the opening - ergo a cabin filter. Anything else would block and constrict the uptake of air by the fan - I would then hazzard a guess that no or very low air flow with fan on high will eventualy cause the fans demise.
Then it will give up its smoke and all is nigh!.... not to mention an over heated passenger whinging in your ear.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 08, 2020, 03:34:40 PM
Now I know why it was so hard to get the heater core out, I could not get the new one in.
Ahhh the wonders of Phone technology, you can stick one of these any where, it will self focus, snap pics, giving results.
We have three layers 1. Outer case. 2. Firewall. 3. Inner case. The converter had applied (possibly under pressure) a rubber filler sealant.

Now this has set harder than the rubber in my tyres, and stuck with more tenacity than my tyres have on the road.

But the clincher - it had also permiated thru the holes and into and between each of the firewall layers, but after a scalple, bull nose pliers, cursing and threats it finally relented and came out albeit in small pieces. Wallah - how easy the core went back in - easy peasy - now for a lay down so my blood pressure comes back down. Or maybe a Scotch.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: sirfixalot on June 08, 2020, 09:08:37 PM
In your pic on page 1 the cavity where fan is drawing air from goes down under car & sucks air from under car & also from gap between body & L/hand bonnet catch assembly. I had to fabricate a duct from inside car to the fan to exclude hot air from under car & engine bay to make it truly recirc only
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 09, 2020, 12:25:07 PM
Ummmm... I'll get a brighter light and have another look, pretty sure mine has no entry for outside air.

And for those members concerned that this narative on the Matrix is lacking a character, I can assure you that Neo wanted to be involved but is far away practicing social distancing.

I'll now go double check my  openings, and then search for some closed cell foam to wrap my MATRIX, ready for re-installation.
Regards.
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: sirfixalot on June 09, 2020, 02:05:15 PM
Drop a string line with a nut on it down there
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 12, 2020, 10:47:12 AM
No - openings. The fire wall and bulk heads are all solid and sealed.

Could not get the casing back together with the new core fitted. It must be all put together on the bench and installed as a completed assembly.
I was going to cut the casing in half, but after a lot of thought, I realised the side where it was hitting would still interfere.
So I cut  a corner off the part that was hitting, with this done, goes straight in easy peasy. Obviously this will need to be patched later.

BUT ! There's always a but. Whilst it goes in easily - the RH side goes in and together perfectly, the LH side & esp where the case goes around the copper pipes will not go down to allow the mounts to come together, so as to screw up. Frustration reins suppreme.
The copper pipes cant be moved without running the risk of cracking the solder joints. So out it comes, start again....

I'll have to compare the old to new matrix's, whilst trying to refrain from smashing something.

Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 13, 2020, 01:24:18 PM
Ok the new one out and a pic below showing both.

I wonder what the difference is ..........

Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: MY081 on June 13, 2020, 03:55:31 PM
About 5/8s of an inch I think .Ray
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Vettech on June 13, 2020, 06:02:56 PM
5/8" ...... 5/8" ... bloody brickies.

Oh .......  I went and measured that - it was 5/8" your spot on Ray ....... (bloody brickies)

Where's that coke when you need it ...... oh well Magarita's.... and its far too late to spell it correctly .... wheres the salt.



Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Bfit on June 13, 2020, 06:38:52 PM
Ok the new one out and a pic below showing both.

I wonder what the difference is ..........



Difficult for a blind person to see
Bfit
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: MY081 on June 14, 2020, 04:39:45 PM
Yea 5/8 is easy for me to judge. that's about how far out of plumb i usually was in every 4 courses Lol
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Bfit on June 14, 2020, 05:28:53 PM
Nothing wrong with that in a 100 meter wall
Bfit
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: Bfit on June 15, 2020, 02:02:58 PM
The matrix conspiracy  is  becoming more of a covert operation.
Bfit
Title: Re: C4 87 Heater Matrix
Post by: MY081 on June 16, 2020, 10:34:16 AM
Mmmmmm I meant every 4 courses high witch  can create a problem from time to time. Uncle Doug is doing a great job of entertaining us ( especially since he explained what a Bloody Matrix is ) he always makes things more technical than they need to be.Why not say something that has rows and columns etc . Ray