NSW Corvettes
Technical Tips => Engines - Carbies - Exhausts - Dissys => Topic started by: jolinari on December 30, 2005, 11:28:54 PM
-
hi guys,
I have 2 admit that my mechanical knowledge is not huge. I would like to ask u z following:
How would i make my base 350 engine more powerfull on take off without modifying 2 much the engine....the car is all original and i really really would like 2 have more power...
what do u guys recommend? some1 mentioned extractors....what would be the budget? any recommendation?
thanks
-
How much are you spending????? lots of little things can add up to better horsepower!
Do you want to stay original?
What sort of hp are you looking at?
Why not buy a crate engine with guarenteed horsepower rating and store the original one!
I can go on for pages!!!!!
-
Budget $ 3000-$5000...i do want 2stay original if possible...
crate engine...do i have to change bonnet or modify anything?
-
I'd definitely try get an idea about how much more power you want (or how fast you want your car to be) before you spend any money on mods. Nothing worse then spending money on something that is redundant because it won't get you what you want.
New extractors can soak up between $900-$1700 (depends on what you get). Extractors will probably give you 10-15hp at best. If you get extractors makje sure you get good ones (ie: don't sit too close to the ground, have well radiused connectors, allow spark plug access, and are preferably ceramic coated for heat control (add about $300 for ceramic coating).
Given your budget I'd consider a matched exhaust (if necessary), intake, carb and cam with what you have at the moment.
Changing the rocker ratio can also be cheap horsepower if you are only looking for a relatively small gain (instead of a cam change).
If you want a bit more "pep" you could also consider a diff ratio change for better acceleration (although your highway cruising rpm will suffer).
Just a few thoughts, I'm sure a few others here will have some good ideas.
-
extra 100 hp i guess...i probably need more than $5000 hey?
-
yeah for about 5000 you will only get bits and pieces,which wont add up to kick in the pants horsepower! Thats why I say - keep this engine! if you want original! dont mess with it too much, The only thing you can do if you want extra hp is make changes internally! which will still cost more than $5000 to do properly.
Dont go the cheap way,there are people who will do it cheap BUT you pay for what you get!
Again this is why I come back to crate engines,they come with warrenties!!!!! you get big bang for your buck and you keep your oringinal engine how its suppose to be!! instead of paying for bits and pieces with little gain, save a little extra and get a decent engine. In most cases you cant have ORIGINAL and WORKED in the same sentence!
examples.... http://www.shafiroff.com/434_595_engine.asp
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=crate+engine&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/ZZ383-Crate-Engine-425HP-12498772-P764C2.aspx
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/nbspnbspSmall-Blocks-C53.aspx?UserID=418326&SessionID=7OYTCZ6ybsp5jTOdZfrE
http://www.amerspeed.com/cgi-bin/showengines.cgi?EngineTypeID=3
These are $US .These are just a few of the thousands of examples!
Top > Performance Engines > ZZ383 Crate Engine 425HP
12498772
(http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/images/12498772_large.jpg)
PRICE: $4,892.99 :spook:spook Thats roughly $6800Aussie!! plus say $1000 shipping (no duty cause made in US) BARGAIN! This will vertually bolt straight in!
ZZ383 Crate Engine 425HP 12498772 Description
With GM's legendary Fast Burn cylinder heads and 383 cubic inches, the ZZ383/425 delivers incredible torque with smooth, linear delivery.
If your're looking for a small-block package that delivers big-block power, then you've found it.
425 horsepower at in incredibly low 5400 RPM, and 460 ft.lbs of torque at 4500 RPM make this the ideal hot street engine.
The excellent air handling and combustion characteristics of the Fast Burn cylinder heads combined with the ZZ383/425's 3.800" stroke, make this engine the benchmark against which all other 383 inch small-blocks should be measured. And its tough, too.
The 4340 nitrided and induction hardened crank and unique forged PM rods see to that.
The 9.1 to 1 compression ratio ensures that the ZZ383/425 is 92 octane pump gas friendly.
The ZZ383/425 gets a stout .509/.528 lift steel camshaft with 222/230 duration at .050 lift. Hydraulic roller lifters and GM's time tested 1.5 to 1 roller rocker arms round ou the valve train.
And, of course, it has the Fast Burn head's lightweight stainless steel valves and retainers for reliable performance at extended RPM.
GM's testing was completed using a GM single plane intake, P/N 12496822 and a 750 CFM Demon carburetor with mechanical secondaries.
Test header specs are: 1 3/4" primairies,33 inches long with a 4-inch collectors.
GM dual plane intake P/N 12366573 may be used for hood clearance on the ZZ383/425, but it results in a decrease in peak horsepower of approximately 15-20 horsepower.
-
thanks for the advise 69 dirty rat...i definetly have some thinking to do...it is definelty better option to leave the original engine intact....thanks again
Originally posted by 69 DIRTY RAT
yeah for about 5000 you will only get bits and pieces,which wont add up to kick in the pants horsepower! Thats why I say - keep this engine! if you want original! dont mess with it too much, The only thing you can do if you want extra hp is make changes internally! which will still cost more than $5000 to do properly.
Dont go the cheap way,there are people who will do it cheap BUT you pay for what you get!
Again this is why I come back to crate engines,they come with warrenties!!!!! you get big bang for your buck and you keep your oringinal engine how its suppose to be!! instead of paying for bits and pieces with little gain, save a little extra and get a decent engine. In most cases you cant have ORIGINAL and WORKED in the same sentence!
examples.... http://www.shafiroff.com/434_595_engine.asp
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=crate+engine&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/ZZ383-Crate-Engine-425HP-12498772-P764C2.aspx
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/nbspnbspSmall-Blocks-C53.aspx?UserID=418326&SessionID=7OYTCZ6ybsp5jTOdZfrE
These are $US .These are just a few of the thousands of examples!
Top > Performance Engines > ZZ383 Crate Engine 425HP
12498772
(http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/images/12498772_large.jpg)
PRICE: $4,892.99 :spook:spook Thats roughly $6800Aussie!! plus say $1000 shipping (no duty cause made in US) BARGAIN! This will vertually bolt straight in!
ZZ383 Crate Engine 425HP 12498772 Description
With GM's legendary Fast Burn cylinder heads and 383 cubic inches, the ZZ383/425 delivers incredible torque with smooth, linear delivery.
If your're looking for a small-block package that delivers big-block power, then you've found it.
425 horsepower at in incredibly low 5400 RPM, and 460 ft.lbs of torque at 4500 RPM make this the ideal hot street engine.
The excellent air handling and combustion characteristics of the Fast Burn cylinder heads combined with the ZZ383/425's 3.800" stroke, make this engine the benchmark against which all other 383 inch small-blocks should be measured. And its tough, too.
The 4340 nitrided and induction hardened crank and unique forged PM rods see to that.
The 9.1 to 1 compression ratio ensures that the ZZ383/425 is 92 octane pump gas friendly.
The ZZ383/425 gets a stout .509/.528 lift steel camshaft with 222/230 duration at .050 lift. Hydraulic roller lifters and GM's time tested 1.5 to 1 roller rocker arms round ou the valve train.
And, of course, it has the Fast Burn head's lightweight stainless steel valves and retainers for reliable performance at extended RPM.
GM's testing was completed using a GM single plane intake, P/N 12496822 and a 750 CFM Demon carburetor with mechanical secondaries.
Test header specs are: 1 3/4" primairies,33 inches long with a 4-inch collectors.
GM dual plane intake P/N 12366573 may be used for hood clearance on the ZZ383/425, but it results in a decrease in peak horsepower of approximately 15-20 horsepower.
-
Originally posted by 69 DIRTY RAT
yeah for about 5000 you will only get bits and pieces,which wont add up to kick in the pants horsepower! Thats why I say - keep this engine! if you want original! dont mess with it too much, The only thing you can do if you want extra hp is make changes internally! which will still cost more than $5000 to do properly.
Dont go the cheap way,there are people who will do it cheap BUT you pay for what you get!
Again this is why I come back to crate engines,they come with warrenties!!!!! you get big bang for your buck and you keep your oringinal engine how its suppose to be!! instead of paying for bits and pieces with little gain, save a little extra and get a decent engine. In most cases you cant have ORIGINAL and WORKED in the same sentence!
examples.... http://www.shafiroff.com/434_595_engine.asp
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=crate+engine&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/ZZ383-Crate-Engine-425HP-12498772-P764C2.aspx
http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/nbspnbspSmall-Blocks-C53.aspx?UserID=418326&SessionID=7OYTCZ6ybsp5jTOdZfrE
http://www.amerspeed.com/cgi-bin/showengines.cgi?EngineTypeID=3
These are $US .These are just a few of the thousands of examples!
Top > Performance Engines > ZZ383 Crate Engine 425HP
12498772
(http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/images/12498772_large.jpg)
PRICE: $4,892.99 :spook:spook Thats roughly $6800Aussie!! plus say $1000 shipping (no duty cause made in US) BARGAIN! This will vertually bolt straight in!
ZZ383 Crate Engine 425HP 12498772 Description
With GM's legendary Fast Burn cylinder heads and 383 cubic inches, the ZZ383/425 delivers incredible torque with smooth, linear delivery.
If your're looking for a small-block package that delivers big-block power, then you've found it.
425 horsepower at in incredibly low 5400 RPM, and 460 ft.lbs of torque at 4500 RPM make this the ideal hot street engine.
The excellent air handling and combustion characteristics of the Fast Burn cylinder heads combined with the ZZ383/425's 3.800" stroke, make this engine the benchmark against which all other 383 inch small-blocks should be measured. And its tough, too.
The 4340 nitrided and induction hardened crank and unique forged PM rods see to that.
The 9.1 to 1 compression ratio ensures that the ZZ383/425 is 92 octane pump gas friendly.
The ZZ383/425 gets a stout .509/.528 lift steel camshaft with 222/230 duration at .050 lift. Hydraulic roller lifters and GM's time tested 1.5 to 1 roller rocker arms round ou the valve train.
And, of course, it has the Fast Burn head's lightweight stainless steel valves and retainers for reliable performance at extended RPM.
GM's testing was completed using a GM single plane intake, P/N 12496822 and a 750 CFM Demon carburetor with mechanical secondaries.
Test header specs are: 1 3/4" primairies,33 inches long with a 4-inch collectors.
GM dual plane intake P/N 12366573 may be used for hood clearance on the ZZ383/425, but it results in a decrease in peak horsepower of approximately 15-20 horsepower.
Also note that you still need to buy your extractors, intake, carb and dizzy on top of that engine purchase figure.
Also as a side not is it just me that finds it interesting that the test motor used here used 4" collectors to get it's power figures?
-
1 3/4 prim. 4 inch collector they are the measurements for Small Block Hooker sidepipes - engine to exit! So theyre not that abnormally big! I think it does come with manifold,carby,dizzy! I just didnt put on the thread!Some of the other packages are complete turnkey also!
-
Originally posted by 69 DIRTY RAT
1 3/4 prim. 4 inch collector they are the measurements for Small Block Hooker sidepipes - engine to exit! So theyre not that abnormally big! I think it does come with manifold,carby,dizzy! I just didnt put on the thread!Some of the other packages are complete turnkey also!
Ouch! I'm new to sidepipes but with the horspeower that motor is putting out it really doesn't need anything bigger than a 3" collector based on the maths behind things. Just an observation, I'm sure those guys have a better idea of what they are doing than I do.
-
wow...overwhelming replies! thanks heaps...will conider all options...
-
Unless you are building a specific type of motor (as i am for my vette) you can't beat these crate motors for bang for your bucks. I recently bought a crate motor from Suburban Imports in Brookvale NSW for my project Camaro and seriously you couldn't rebuild your motor for what it costs to just buy a brand new one and they have a 1 year garantee.
-
what is ur project? what r u building? tell us mate
-
I'd agree! You can get alot of motor for your money with them. Just remember that extractors and a good free flowing
exhaust are essential, so why not get the exhaust first? Who knows... with a bit more power and the accompanying sound of a sweet chevy you may just be happy with that for the time being! And if yours is running sweetly then what more could you ask for on a nice cruise!
-
Originally posted by jolinari
what is ur project? what r u building? tell us mate
1970 SS RS Camaro black/black, hope to have it finished by midyear:b2 Don't know which year though;39
-
And if you wanted more get-up-and-go without pulling the engine out, i'd have a leak-down compression test done first and if compression and valve seats are fine then i'd throw on an Edelbrock Performer inlet manifold, put in a mild cam with something around 440" lift and 280 duration with anti pump-up lifters, valve springs to suit and a good timing chain and get the original rochester jetted to suit. Check your oil pump and water pump are up to scratch and give her a full service with good leads, plugs etc. Can all be done fitted in the car, will come in well under 5 grand... prob more like 2-3grand....and will make a very nice power increase. With the exhaust that would take you up to your 5grand limit and is about as far as i personally would go before pulling her out for a freshen-up or a replacement crate engine.
-
Eagle Spares in Sydney & Melbourne have many GM crate engines as well! Also if you put the original covers back on and paint the engine to original colour....guarentee 99% of people would think its an original engine! but now its a stealth monsta!
-
would u mind providing their details....and post in the corvette related in the subject of list of suppliers...thank you
-
http://www.eagleautospares.com.au/
http://www.californiaspeedsupplies.com.au/
http://www.chevroletaustralia.com/
http://www.corvette.net.au/www.corvette.net.html
http://www.corvette.com.au/
http://www.highperformanceworld.com.au/
http://www.earls.com.au/
http://www.showwheels.com.au/fronttemplate2.php
http://www.vetteconnection.com.au/
http://www.pontiworld.com.au/
http://www.vpw.com.au/
http://www.sjperformance.com.au/www.sjperformance.com.au
http://www.acdelco.com.au/
http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/
-
UR THE MAN!!!! WELL DONE
-
Here's a LINK (http://www.suburbanimports.com.au/motors.htm) to Suburban Imports' motors, it includes prices.
-
Originally posted by Thunder Kiss
Here's a LINK (http://www.suburbanimports.com.au/motors.htm) to Suburban Imports' motors, it includes prices.
thanks mate...will check it out now..so many options
-
Hey Guys... great question Joe,
Just wanted to say, this has been one of my favourite forum articals.....
Andy, gee i must say that you definatley know your stuff.....
Im not an expert,......but i think one thing with regards to performance has been overlooked.....err... missed....what about driveablity....?
And definately, the driveline...?
Joe, if your going for performance, you also need to consider...gearbox.... diferential ratios...and braking?
-
How about an under bonnet supercharger???????
;27
-
too much malakias....i need an expert for that sh#tttt;39
-
Joe..... i have the answer to your question.....
"would like 2make 350 base engine more powerfull"........ throw money at it...hahaha....;29
m;36
-
Oh.....on another matter Joe....Have you got a spare $10 gees..... im sure we can make it fly for that.....:flower
m;36
-
Originally posted by 69VETTE
Hey Guys... great question Joe,
Just wanted to say, this has been one of my favourite forum articals.....
Andy, gee i must say that you definatley know your stuff.....
Im not an expert,......but i think one thing with regards to performance has been overlooked.....err... missed....what about driveablity....?
And definately, the driveline...?
Joe, if your going for performance, you also need to consider...gearbox.... diferential ratios...and braking?
Yeah I realise that, BUT if you go say up to about 450hp you wouldnt have to change driveline. Remember vettes came out with 435hp standard!
-
Originally posted by 69VETTE
Oh.....on another matter Joe....Have you got a spare $10 gees..... im sure we can make it fly for that.....:flower
m;36
mmm i might as well buy big block....lots of money...
-
SB is lighter...handle better! cheaper than BB!
-
Originally posted by 69 DIRTY RAT
SB is lighter...handle better! cheaper than BB!
lol @ ur NCRS
-
Before you spend any money on bolt on extra's do a compression test because if your comp is down it wont matter what you add to your engine it still wont perform,
If the comp is down then you can consider the create engine options
-
Originally posted by SC
Before you spend any money on bolt on extra's do a compression test because if your comp is down it wont matter what you add to your engine it still wont perform,
If the comp is down then you can consider the create engine options
good point!
-
Brian,
The problem with crate engines , from what ive heard is that because theyre roller engines, they have lmited life expectancy...
Please someone correct me here if im wrong... ;ay
M;36
-
Where did you get that nonsense from? Yes if you get it from a cheap engine reconditioner....maybe? and yes they are out there! But You can check what parts are going into the engine before you buy it! Most new crate engines come with 2 year warrenties, you cant beat that and also they are staking there reputations on making good engines. GM, World Industries, Merlin, Edelbrock the list goes on, are all big name manufacturers of engines, they are not going to put inferior products in there engines! I'll show you my list of parts in my engine....anyone thats seen them has been impressed!
-
go 69 rat...go!!!
-
Andy... thats what ive heard from within the motor industry.
The problems associated with performance engines is... regardless of the promised 2 years warranty, they (engine suppliers) will generally not uphold any side of the warranty if it can be shown that it was thrashed?
So, talking high performance roller cam engines ..whats the generall life expectancy?
Oh...and what happens when something goes bang (you know what i mean) .....do you just send it back (the whole motor to the USA) for it to be repaired?
Or can you get someone over here to do the repairs and send the bill to the US?
Curious....
M;36
-
Originally posted by 69VETTE
Brian,
The problem with crate engines , from what ive heard is that because theyre roller engines, they have lmited life expectancy...
Please someone correct me here if im wrong... ;ay
M;36
Don't know where you got this info from but the fact is it's the other way around.
I have over the years on various toys of mine replaced flat tappet hydraulic cam and lifters four times. The flat tappet lifter wears into a concave shape (when new they are slightly convex not actually flat) and the cam lobes wear down to an almost circle. On the roller cams there is no friction as the rollers simply roll over the lobes.
I have two engines that have roller cams fitted to them and one of them is a bigblock which i had built in 1988, it's fired up and run once a month and i have never had a problem with it.
Absolutely critical to the life of a flat tappet cam is its break in period however even after this the cam is still susceptible to wear especially on a cold start up while the roller cam doesn't have such problems.
Although there are other benefits to a roller cam such as idle and power, it's definitely a lot more durable than any hydraulic or solid flat tappet cam.
-
Everything in engines these days are a lot stronger than the old days as well, the Steel and aluminium is far superior to 20 years ago! They must be old fashioned???? if anything the reason your friends may say these things is because people know they are superior engines and thrash them alot more! just like I will!!!! Crate Engines (on a big scale) have been a relatively new phonominom, how can anyone even say they wear out when no-one has actually had time to wear one out yet? Get with the program 69VETTE or you snooze you loose!
-
Over the past 18 months we have fitted approx 20 create engines into boats, we have only had 2 problems 1 oil leak which was a rear main oil seal ( one peice ) and the other engine was low on compression. Both these problems were fixed under warranty emidetly and with out any hassels the engines were supplied by Eagles at revesby, Tony and Greg are very easy to deal with and know what their talking about
Normal warranty period in 12 months i dont know any one offering 2 years
With how long an engine will last comes back to the user re how it is driven and servicing
As for roller cam against flat tappet we have fitted both and it comes down to dollars, both do what they claim to do re HP and which will last longer again depends on the user and the servicing
-
Thanks guys for the awsome feedback...
Its great to have forums like this to get down to the nitty gritty of stuff..
Excellent Stuff....
Oh... i hope i didnt step on anyones toes.....;eek
M;36
-
well my big toe is a little sore BUT this time I'll let you go!!!!!:24:evil
-
Thanks Andy,
I hope i didnt upset the RAT PACk.......:v
Nothing like a BIg Block i know...;ay
M;36