NSW Corvettes
Restoration & Modification Projects => Restoration Projects => Topic started by: bfit on July 14, 2011, 12:58:26 PM
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Hi every one
I am hoping to get a bit of feed back on what problems I mite run in to fitting a LS3 in to a C3
I am sure some one out there will have already done this
Bfit
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I think the biggest problem is getting the correct sump and ancillaries. I never worked out if the local commondore ones are correct. I'm pretty sure the sump is the wrong one and you'd need an aftermarket one.
There are engine mount plates that allow the engine to be mounted very easily. There are a few different designs that put the engine forward or higher/lower, but you don't want the sump too low. You have to work out the best comprimise.
With the gearbox, half of the problems mentioned previously still exist if you go the T56. You'll need to cut/fab the cross member, shorten the tailshaft, convert the car to hydraulic clutch master and sort out the elec/mech speedo problem. The shifter may need a little modification to get it to come up through the right place.
Using the 4 speed auto wiill solve the hyd clutch issue but I'm not 100% sure if there is enough room in the trans tunnel. Tail shaft, speedo and cross member will still be an issue, as will fitting the shifter to the console.
Then there is the wiring. Enougn places fo LSX conversions these days, so that shouldn't be too much problem to find someone to do it. You can probably get a harness from the states that will get you most of the way there.
Lastly, to get it engineered you will need all the pollution gear from what ever year the donor car is. So, charcoal cannister, cat converters etc. All that crap.
One grey area is if you use an after market block. Since they aren't from a car of any particular year, you may not require any pollution gear apart from what the car is originally specced in. (ie no cats) You'd have to investigate this further though as I haven't looked into that as much.
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I would be getting the engine out of the US from a contact I have
it would come with sump for the vette and accessories high mounted on the front
The engines are built out of new GM components
and come with all the pollution gear. I don't mind fitting all that.
Do my bit to reduce pollution, on this car anyway.
engineers are a worry as no two have the same ideas
at 6.2L its a bit more than an over bore from a 5.7 but arguable when it comes to doing it
Engine is about 50KG lighter the only thing they could complain about is HP
And that can be tuned down to a few hundred if required.
How is HP measured for rego now days
I have not looked in to it yet
But Hp used to be worked out on piston diameter
Goes back to the old steam days
that may well have changed, since I did any of this ( mmm over 30 years )
one would think the powers to be would like the lower emissions and better km/ L
mechanically its straight forward bolting it in there will be ease.
things to work out
radiator size
how to adapt the tachometer
which engineer to Use
learning something about computer controlled petrol engine ?( may be this should be listed first )
Bfit
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So would it be built from a GM or aftermarket block? It may make a difference to the engineer. As will using the factory computer vs aftermarket.
Aren't the engines fly by wire? You may need a suitable accelerator pedal set-up too.
I thought the rules for engine swaps were based on displacement, not horsepower. Having a separate chassis helps with this lots. What year car is it going into?
There are plenty of threads on the US forums about the conversions. While it's not a straight bolt in, it's not too hard.
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IF I do this It will be in to 79
computer and wiring are Gm
I have to ask the question about the block
Bfit
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I have bought a LS1 to learn about these engine
I guess I will find out all the pit falls for here on
I have been told this conversion it just to hard
to many issues
Is that not a good reason to do it
and test ones resolve and skills.
I will start posting photos as I work it out.
But first I have to work out how to post photos?
that might be hard !
Jethro I may have to ring you up and get the finer points ON posting photos
Bfit
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Has any one seen any good ideas on where to place the ECM in a C3
I would like to fit inside the car
More that likely it will go in the LH guard
Any ideas
Bfit
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I priced this conversion up about 2 years ago and thought without engine and gearbox included it would be about $15-$18k to do it properly there is alot more work in it then people think.
I dont believe its worth it.
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I priced this conversion up about 2 years ago and thought without engine and gearbox included it would be about $15-$18k to do it properly there is alot more work in it then people think.
I dont believe its worth it.
$15-18 grand without engine/gearbox sounds a bit steep.
Is this doing it yourself or paying someone to do it?
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I have to admit is is time consuming
But then I have moved the engine several times
and now i have purchased three different sumps.
If you were doing it on hourly it may run out to be expensive.
I first bought and engine and gear box ( mistake )
it cost far to much to buy all the parts to install and finish the installation.
After starting to job
I bought a commodore complete which is drivable you get every thing to do the job for a Few K
this is the only way to go
Not allowing for time I would expect $ will run in to about 5k to 7k
when you consider the cost to Run a 350 SB the LS1 will pay for it self in reasonable time if the car is driven regularly
last weekend I did 550k in my 79 and eat up 180$ in fuel.
I would expect the LS1 which makes more HP to use half that.
When I get to the finish I would be more the willing to pass on any info to any one wanting to do this conversion.
Thinking about this
engine and 4l60E and a complete car
a few sumps, harness mods, engine mount adapter plates that don't do the job
the 7k is gone.
I also bought a 76 to trail fit is all into before I will fit to my 79 model
Getting out of control ?
as the saying goes
NOTHING ventured nothing gained
Bfit
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Bfit the VE Commy Wreck with 6 ltr is the way ta go and you might even be able to sell some of the pannel work off on ebay:bannana:
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Hi jethro
I am not keen on the ls2 and 3 as sold here in Aus'
they dont come with cable throttle
For the first one I am doing the LS1 is best to learn on
you can buy a commodore with under A 100K for less than the so called coversions sold by the wreackers
in fact under 3k if you wait for the rite buy.
and with some luck the 76 I have will sell with the LS1 and 4l60E as well as the original engine and trany as project to some one
If not I have some other ideas for it
Bfit
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I priced this conversion up about 2 years ago and thought without engine and gearbox included it would be about $15-$18k to do it properly there is alot more work in it then people think.
I dont believe its worth it.
$15-18 grand without engine/gearbox sounds a bit steep.
Is this doing it yourself or paying someone to do it?
no thats doing about 60% of the work myself,but when i mean do it properly i mean brake up grade to suit, spring and shock change for the new weight up front so it doesnt sit a mile in the air and diff ratio change to suit.this includes engineers cert.
If you paid some one to do the whole lot it would be alot more expensive for sure.
Dont forget you have wiring work,new extractors/exhaust work, both cross members modified, tunnel modified, clutch conversion, fly by wire modification on late model motors, air con mods power steer mods if you choose to run these,radiator replacement and all hoses to suit these items,tacho sender mods, speedo mods, tailshaft mods intake mods and i wasnt sure if you needed to move steering components so as you can see it adds up very fast and a lot of people dont think of most of these things until they get to the problem.:drag::drag::drag:
good luck mate it is a HUGE job.
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Here's a link to someone doing the LS into C3 swap in QLD at the moment.
Details here: LINK (http://www.australiancorvettes.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7781).
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(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture037.jpg)
I will post a few photos now
thanks to a call from Nick to put me straight on how its done
I am trying to work out how to post photos
Any tips
Bfit
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(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture037.jpg)
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture037.jpg
I am trying to work out how to post photos
Any tips
Bfit
Try this link Rob....
http://nswcorvettes.com.au/forum/viewthread.php?tid=8013
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Thanks Nick
Bfit
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Always happy to help :thumb:.
Then again, now that we’ve let you loose with posting Pictures :lol:
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Thanks Jethro
the link confirms just what Nick has just told me
It is so simple
You wont believe how long I have been trying to work this out
Bfit
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Here we go,
I picked up the 76 to do the install
some of the install photos as I work out the issues in fitting the LS1
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/76front.jpg)
front view 76 vette
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/76rear.jpg)
rear view 76 vette
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture057.jpg)
ECU location LHS under washer bottle
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture043-1.jpg)
pan clearance this Is a Camaro oil pan fitted to Ls1
I have been told that 10mm is desirable but 5mm is enough
Bfit
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(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Transmissionmountfromunderneath.jpg)
Trany mount photo from underneath
manufactured from 4mm steel
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Transmissionmounttopview.jpg)
Trany mount viewed for top
Drilling for mount measures 50mm to front of hole to cross member measured on underside of mount
elongation in hole measures 20mm front to rear, 11.5mm in width.
Step in bracket 25mm measured from top of cross member to top of bracket where rubber mount sits.
Bfit
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Top job on X-member tounge good to see your not hacking & chopping but using original holes in x-member & making parts to suit
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Looks like there is some good progress happening. All the work should make for a great street car.
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8" booster
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/8inchdueldiaphragmbooster.jpg)
I am trying this to get more room above the tappet cover
things are to tight with 9" booster.
using 8" booster will require and additional vacuum tank to increase capacity.
water bottle filler is turned to the rear to give space to fit relay and fuse panel.
Has any one seen any good ideas for air filter
I am looking a moving radiator down in the frame 2" to allow for over the radiator induction
How ever I have not seen any decent filtration systems. I can use in that method of cold air induction
'
Bfit
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critical Clearances
these clearances were obtained with engine sitting in frame
1/2" forward of original engine position measured from block / bell housing joint
offset in mounting bracket from four mounts that hold bracket to engine is 9/16" down ( ie engine lifted up )
measured form center line of top two mounting holes
I will post a drawing soon.
bracket made from 5/8" material using an Mackay mounts part no. A1128
Note i found that the Mackay mount measures close to 1 1/8" think where the US mounts I have measure 3/4" thick
the engine could be set up lower in the frame
but where I have this now the oil pan of the 4L60E is at the same level got ground clearance as the oil pan for a BB engine
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/clearancefullrightsteer.jpg)
clearance full right hand steer
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/clearancefullleftsteer.jpg)
clearance full Left hand steer
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Clearancealternatortoenginemounting.jpg)
clearance alternator to engine mount
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Clearanceunderalternator.jpg)
clearance under mounting
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture045.jpg)
transmission / chassis
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I came across this mount on Ebay its the best looking adapter mount I have seen commercially
the offset down for the engine mount looks about 5/16" to 3/8"
You could not make the bracket for the asking price
how ever freight costs may make it a break even situation
balancing making your own against purchasing a production manufactured plate.
I have just ordered the 6061 alloy to make my finished adapters
@ $130 AU and there is a few hours machining in them as one of deal.
Note Australian manufactured engine mount will not bolt straight to the dirty-dingo adapter plate.
A rebate is need for clearance of the stiffener rib on the back on the engine mount.
Bfit
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/DD-LS-Plate-4.jpg)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180754263876?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
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(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/6061mountplate1.jpg)
Engine mount adapter plate 6061 tool grade Aluminum
the mount is machined to clear the mackay mount
19mm wide x 4.5 mm in depth
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/mackaymount.jpg)
Mackay mount note rib in rear none of the US made plate will accommodate these mounts
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/mackaymount1.jpg)
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Has any one used any
DAKOTA DIGITAL gauges
I would like to hear from you if you have used there gauges
to get your opinion
Bfit
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I am thinking no one has used the Dakota gauges
should I conclude something from that.
Bfit
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I am thinking no one has used the Dakota gauges
should I conclude something from that.
Bfit
I reckon
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I am thinking no one has used the Dakota gauges
should I conclude something from that.
Bfit
I think you can conclude that they are expensive, and that while many people wish they could use them, generally they opt for something cheaper, then always wish they could have spent that extra :grin:
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Scott
That is a very good possibility
I had not considered that point of view
Bfit
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I've spoken to more than one person at car shows that have rebuilt a car and added good aftermarket gauges (autometer etc), and wished they had gone straight to a dakota digital gauges, or are planning to upgrade.
I was looking at some cheaper digital gauges (cyberdyne) but I think if I do swap to aftermarket, I'll go with good old reliable VDO's. Dakota would be great, but I can't justify the price. The money would be better spent on alloy heads or fuel injection.
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hi All I found these manifolds on Ebay
fit like a Glove
And should keep the RTA happy
They makes for a real stock engine look
Bfit
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture102.jpg)
I belive that are off a
VE SS commodore 6.0L L98 engine
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture108.jpg)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture106.jpg)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture105.jpg)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture103.jpg)
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I am in the process of getting a Brogeson power steering box
With the removal of the power steering cylinder I should be able to lower the motor 8mm to 10 mm
This will give more clearance in the transmission tunnel
allow the retention of the 9" booster.
Bfit
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Coolant Reservoir
commodore reservoir fit ok in the position of the old over flow bottle.
If any of you have seen a better reservoir, that i can get further under the guard let me know .
The reservoir is mounter on two brackets as per the original mounting in the commodore using the three original rubber mountings .
this is fiddly to get rite and maintain clearance.
it is achievable though.
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture112.jpg)
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture113.jpg)
Bfit
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hello all
has any one used a Volant 25857C Cool Air Intake Kit
I would like some feed back please
Bfit
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I realize its been a while and you have probably already have a CAI Bob , so i was just curious in what you ended up doing ?
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I realize its been a while and you have probably already have a CAI Bob , so i was just curious in what you ended up doing ?
Mate I have got that job on the back burner
Until I have he 70 model sorted
I will be back to it soon
Bfit
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Mate I have got that job on the back burner
Until I have he 70 model sorted
I will be back to it soon
Bfit
Tonto, 70 Sorted? What about your 69 Sorted than the 73 i'm thinking you got to many Vettes :laugh: