NSW Corvettes
Technical Tips => Brakes, Suspensions, Steering, Wheels & Tyres => Topic started by: Stingraynut on August 03, 2003, 06:06:54 PM
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I have 275x40x17” 1989 rims and recently put two new Falken tyres on the rear. The front Falkens are about 60% worn.
The car slides around in the wet – it’s shocking. A flat top ute went past me while I was out of control in a 4 wheel drift – we’d been going the same speed around the roundabout and were exiting, me on the outside.
I was following a 76 Stingray and lost it on a corner going 30kph ! The Stingray had no problems and we weren’t trying to go fast, the 76 is a high gloss show winner.
I discovered this thread on the Corvette Forum - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=613364
He speaks for me too !
There’s a lot of praise for Kumho Ecsta tyres also the Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-DS (not the Supercar) and also Firestone Firehawks SZ50EP, but I don’t know what is available here in Australia.
My 275x40x17” appears to be an unusual and therefore expensive size. I paid $400 each for the Falkens – seems like a lot of money for something that doesn’t work.
Can anyone recommend a brand and or distributor for a good wet weather tyre. I figure that with such a wide tyre they’ll all hold OK in the dry.
S’nut
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Yep - Falkens suck! $400 ea for those!!! ;eek;eek;eek We pay $250 ea down here!
Unfortunately those are the only reasonably priced tyres unless you want to go to $800 Pirelli's. We just can't get the sizes over here.
I'd get onto someone that imports stuff from Japan and get a set from there. It may be a cheaper option.
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Hi 77CVT, $250 each !!!! John Bondock got mine for me, in Brisbane, about $390 each – are you maybe thinking about the 16” size, I know they’re cheaper.
Your news re the lack of choice depresses me. I tried a company here in Cairns that imports Japanese tyres but they never see 17”. Can you recommend anyone in Brisbane I could try ?
Thanks,
S’nut
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Doh! That was for 16 inch!
Don't know anyone in Brisbane .....surely if the guy imports tyres from Japan he could source them for you??
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The importer here was Cairns Secondhand Tyres – They said that they just get sent a container load with no choices…there’s no way to order …hmmmmm, what a way to do business, they must get them very cheap.
I’m currently getting a list of good wet weather tyres form the Cforum –
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?&id=619574&postid=1544745294#1544745294
then I’ll see what is available here from the manufacturers. I have 6 to 12 months left in the fronts so I hope to use the available time to get the right tyre at the right price.
Meanwhile I’m getting my blower and aircon system checked tomorrow by a tech. I have all the electronics working now but I think the evapoator is clogged and the doors not sealing.
This vette-caring IS a full time job.
S’nut
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Nitto's are good too!
Nitto tyres (http://www.nittotire.com/tire_nt555_sizes.asp)
Khumo tyres (http://www.kumhousa.com/)
Toyo - believe it or not! (http://www.toyo.com/tires/index_frame.html)
Yokohama (http://www.yokohamatire.com/)
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I thought that Falkens were one of the few tyres readily available in Oz in a 275/40ZR17 size with an "all-weather" tread pattern.
If you can get your C4 to handle in the wet without resorting to traction control you will have to let me know how you did it. In my opinion you will only get varying degrees of poor traction - the torque characteristics of the L98 coupled with wide tyres tendency to aquaplane work together to make every drive in the wet in a C4 an interesting one.
For what it's worth, it is/was possible to get Falken's for as low as $250 in Sydney. Toyo tyres are now available in a 275/40/ZR17 fitment at pretty good prices but I can't comment on their performance firsthand.
Unless you buy Falken or Toyo expect to pay $500-$1000 (approx) per tyre for other brands.
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I read somewhere recently that Kumho are bringing their high performance tyre (ecsta?) to Aus. Not sure if they'll have the sizes we want - probably not though.
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I made the mistake of buying the same tyres. I got them on special at a tyre store that had a Falken rep working on a display. I paid $390 as well, so the price you paid is correct. As soon as i drove out of the shop i knew i had made a mistake. The only other tyres on the market were all around $750 each. I didn't think that there would be that much difference in the performance. Same old story, you get what you pay for.
I was at a sprint day at QLD raceway recently and got passed by a datsun around a corner in the wet. I was struggling to just idle around the corners while everyone else was powering around.
Steve
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Hi SM90, I’m very sorry to hear you have identical trouble. It is good to know I’m not crazy though and confirms the Falkens are terrible tyres. I had two put on the front before I ever drove the car so had no way to measure what is ‘normal’.
Idling around a wet corner was an apt description and very recognizable.
‘Luckily’ the rear Falkens are fairly worn so will be replaced shortly. I have a noise which I have thought is the UJ’s or bearings but my mechanic checked and says all is tight – it reminds me of the coo-ing of pigeons and is directly speed related – could it be the Falkens ? How noisy are yours ?
If you check the link out to my thread on the Corvette forum, you’ll see which tyres (tires!) people think are good. I was given a link to tirerack.com, their prices were amazing – Goodyear Eagle 1 GS-DS (which looks like the best) - Aus$285
Kumho Ecsta MX (almost cheapest but highly recommended) - Aus$226 – that’s Aussie dollars.
I emailed tirerack and they replied that they will ship to Aus but I have to arrange shipping customs duties etc. I haven’t researched that yet but surely it wouldn’t need much of an order to be very worthwhile.
77CVT – that’s good news if the Kumho’s can be got in Aus, unfortunately the 275x40x17 is a rare and expensive tyre. I really wanted my 12 slot rims but now I’m thinking I should sell them and get a more common size. I’m also thinking that the 16” rim will ride slightly less harsh.
Vette Obsessed. What tyres and sizes do you have. It’s certainly not good to hear your views on the wet roadholding – looking at the various tread patterns at tirerack I can see that the Falken is not very good for the wet. When the car lets go it’s big and takes time to recover. When the C4 was released there was this big issue about the fantastic roadholding – highest G’s ever pulled in a car etc. I think now that those tests were really not ‘real world’ stuff at all but surely a skid pan is slick and wet and the most ideal condition for aquaplaning ? How did they get such high g-force measurements ?……..not with Falkens that’s for sure.
There’s was a thread at Corvette forum 2 or 3 weeks ago titled “Falkens Suck’ – couldn’t agree more. Paying $400 for a tyre is hard enough but for one that doesn’t work !!!!!!
Anyone interested in getting up an order for tyres ?
Anyone know how I go about organising shipping and what charges I can expect ?
S’nut
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To be honest, as good as the CorvetteForum is I would advise taking subjective opinions on tyres given by people as gospel. My reason is how do I know how the person offering the opinion drives their car? If they idle their car around like an old lady (sorry but that is the best expression I can think of) how can I trust their views on traction?
I currently have Michelin MXX3 Pilots on my car in 285/40/ZR17 sizes all round - I know 275 is the correct size but seeing as I paid about $298 per tyre when they should have cost me $800+++ per tyre I wasn't going to argue (I was in the right place at the right time). These tyres have a 140 treadwear rating and I understand they are more of a dry weather tyre. They aren' too bad in the wet but I usually drive very gingerly in the wet.
I have had Dunlop D40M2's, Dunlop SP8000's, Sumitomo HTR 40Z's, and my current Michelin's on my car and to be totally blunt I don't recall there being a hugely noticeable amount of difference between any of them - they all let go too early in either the wet or dry (mind you I am a bit of a hoon).
I imported my SP8000's into Australia myself from the Tire Rack a three or four years back. The problem I had was shipping, because of the size of four tyres being shipped I had two options, A) use a container/freight forwarder or B) use UPS express and get the tyres quickly at high shipping cost. Because I was new to buying parts from the USA at the time and I needed the tyres ASAP I had them shipped UPS. I can check my receipts but from memory the tyres cost me about $500AUS to have shipped in and including duty the tyres cost me about $500 each. I don't recall what the tyres were worth in US dollars but I can find out.
With regard to skidpad numbers - those figures are obtained on a smooth surface with the car being driven in a constant circle in the dry - I think the circle is about 100ft in diameter.
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DO NOT go to 16" rims as you will have even less tyre choices! :b4
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Vette Obsessed, that’s some good info about the 4 brands of tyre you’ve had.
When I ordered the new tyres I asked for ones that were good in the wet and got an amazed look – I’m still wondering about that, but it makes sense to me that a tyre that wide is going to work in the dry, even without tread, it’s the wet that is the problem. As it turned out I had no choice because I thought $395 a tyre was enough to pay (seems I was wrong, again)
So the test skidpan was dry….Wot Tha ? Never heard of that one before. What exactly defines it as skid pan. Haven’t been on one for a long time but they had oil on them and were very slippery (and messy).
I understand what you are saying re the advice got from forums. I’ve been on a Radio Control discussion forum for a couple of years and I recognise the same trends – it’s amazing how much misleading info you can get –but also some good stuff.
I try to identify the ‘real’ people and give their advice more weight. As for tyres, it’s so subjective and depends on the road condition and weather of the area as well as the way people drive.
Some of those Forum guys really love to argue, they take offense at nothing. Some just chip in with “Use the standard GM part” –“leave it to the experts” etc. Currently I have been getting some stunningly accurate advice from SunCR re my aircon – he is a guru. But he probably drives like the proverbial old lady so no good for tyre advice !
A guy called Vader 86 has given good advice to me and others. I notice he advised me to choose Kumho’s but in someone else’s thread he said he had the Firestone Firehawks. (or the other way around) I was a bit confused by that.
I was so glad to hear from another Falken inflicted driver – SM90. I also understand what you are saying re aquaplaning but I will have to replace two tyres in a while and I don’t want to get more Falkens.
The Aussie dollar is placed better versus US$ at the moment, your $500 a tyre was high though – The Goodyear Eagle F1 GS DS I mentioned is currently US$185 which I converted to Aus$285
I have at least 6 months to replace my rear tyres and I figure that not being in a hurry as usual I should be able to organise this properly. Looks like you know about shipping too. What would you advise ?
77CVT – Re 16” – I got the impression there was more choice and some bargains around.
S’nut
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"77CVT – Re 16” – I got the impression there was more choice and some bargains around."
I'd doubt there would be anything close over here to the standard height. I know for C3's it is a waste of time going to 16" because there is virtually nothing to fit.
Handling wise it would be a backward step IMHO.
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Stingraynut, A skipan is different to a skidpad.
A skidpan gets filled/covered with water to induce a loss of traction. As I understand it, these are used for driver training and wet weather testing for cars.
A skidpad is a circular asphalt surface that is used by testers to ascertain maximum grip in relatively controlled conditions.
I'll step onto my :o before I talk about "Vader". I know of Vader86 (who is well known and liked on CF quite well). He is the guy who doles out advice on the CorvetteForum based seemingly on what he has read. He gives guys tech advice on what cam specs to use for their $$$ motor projects but as far as I know his car has the stock cam and he hasn't built any motors... This will probably get me flamed over there when these comments are made known on the CorvetteForum - I have made my concerns known to him before over there and I think we more or less agreed to disagree. He probably read about Kumhos on the Tire Racks website and advised you accordingly. I prefer to try and restrict my comments to those topics I have firsthand experience with. I'll get off my :o now.
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S'nut,
Actually i don't know if my tyres are noisy.. i can't hear them over the engine !!
By the Way.. i bought my car from Cairns, you may know it.. Peter Lik (the Photogragher) owned it.
Steve
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Good soapbox, Vette Obsessed, you can see by my comment that I was on the trail but a longways behind the rest of the posse on that one.
So far my ‘crap filter’ has been working well, in that I’ve had some good info on several things. I’ve no idea how I would get on without the help of the CF. I often tell people here how helpful they are but in all forums you get 3 answers to a question, it’s just a matter of seeing if the correct answer is among them.
(Editing here) - I forgot to say that I check the ages out of the people who seem to offer good advice - doesn't always mean something but generally I never trust someone without at least a few gray hairs. Vader 86 is 22 years old.
The great thing about this NSW Forum is getting an Aussie point of view. I hope no one starts up a second/third/fourth Aus forum – it’s simpler to just have the one. Maybe this one should be renamed to cover all states, looks like there’s a few Qld’s
here.
SM90 - I was not in touch with any local vettes until the end of last year so I’m not familiar with your car. Is it a 90 ? what colour etc ? You can see mine at www.myvette.20m.com
The pics are from when I bought it – just temporary, I’m planning to take some new one’s this week if we get some good weather. I’d like to hear about how you found the car/inspected/did the deal/got it home as it would be useful info for when I sell mine here in Cairns……..no plans at the moment though.
Would you like to email me ? make_contact_@hotmail.com
77CVT – I’m glad you let me know about the 16” rims. I haven’t done any research on them (as you can see)
I was in touch with a great bloke in NSW called Doug (Uncle Doug) and he had put Holden rims on his 87. They were 17”, less wide and cheaper. He sent me some pics, at the time I thought my 12 slots were better but I’m reconsidering. Haven’t heard from Doug for ages.
Vette Obsessed – please, any clues for me on shipping ? Assume I know nothing and you’ll be close, just over-estimating a bit.
I know quite a bit about the aircon though, did you know a Holden WB blower (1982) bolts straight on my 88 ? but that’s got nothing to do with tyres.
S’nut
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"Holden rims on his 87."
Gotta have a chev pattern. Holden rims may fit but will not be centred in the holes and would put more stress on the studs. I've talked to a few people regarding this and have decided against it.
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Hi Vette Obsessed, this is off topic of tyres but I was reading some other posts and was wondering, if your intials are A.L ? in which case I think you were the person who was very helpful when I was deciding on the C3/C4 issue and put me in touch with ‘Uncle Doug’ – if so thanks very much, your and Doug’s advice was very helpful.
I have Dougs home email but there’s been no reply for a long time. He might not be checking it as it’s in his wifes name.
Anyway, if you know Doug please give him my regards and I hope all is going well for him
Thanks
S’nut
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Hi S'nut, yes, my initials are AL and I am the guy who e-mailed you a bit when you were looking at different cars, thanks for the kind words.
Uncle Doug is still around, I'll pass on your message to him.
I will try get those figures for my tyre importation excercise and post them here in the next few days.
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Thanks Vette Obsessed, appreciate any info you can give me on the shipping.
Also for passing on my Hi to Doug, hope he's going well. I really appreciated the info from you and the contacts you gave me. I had no Qld C4 contacts until after I bought my 88.
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Latecomer to this post (and forum).
Ihave Sumitomo road tyres (about $400 each; 275/40/17), which I recently used in a sprint meeting at phillip Island in the wet On the road they seem pretty good in the wet; on a very wet track they were pretty ordinary, but heaps better than an old set of Goodyears (and much much better than my Hoosier dry track DOT radials.
One of the other guys with a C5 runs Michelin pilots, and was fasteat round the island in the very wet conditions. He blew me away.
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Originally posted by dd
He blew me away.
That's the first time I've heard of that happening to you dd. :22
Andrew
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On the power circuits (Sandown and Calder) the C5s are knocking me off in the dry! And we haven't had a dry Island yet this year.
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Here's a final update on my tyre research - another old thread being resurrected, but hey, it's Christmas.
275x40x14 is a fairly rare size in Aus. There's not much choice.
I decided the best tyre was the Goodyear GS D3 - US$187 at www.tirerack.com
Goodyear Australia advised me they would import four for me with their next shipment but I had to order through my local store - three months later, after much too'ing and froo'ing the Cairns store advised me that these tyres were not available. !!!!
I considered importing them myself, especially as the Aus$ v US $ looks good, but I don't know enough about importing and what I do know looks like a hassle - getting them shipped from Brisbane to Cairns would add to the cost plus having to pay GST DUTY SHIPPING ETC.
I only need to replace 2 as the front Falkens were new in May. The Khumo Ecsta MX is not available here but they do have the 712. Enough people on the Corvette Forum told me they were OK and only 1 person said they suck. I was quoted $350 each fitted in Cairns.
I decided to give them a go because my rear tyres are just about done. We might get a wet season this year so as well as staying legal, I'll need some roadholding to keep the powerful beast pointing forwards.
I asked QuickFit for their 'best price' and made it clear I was about to order.
Their reply was $305 each, so I was very pleased. It gets me out of trouble, I can see for myself whether the tyres are any good in the wet and now have a couple of years to plan the importing of some good wet weather tyres - if they exist for an 11 inch wide tyre.
On the down side the tread looks very average and similar to my Falkens which I discover have been replaced with a better looking tread.
On the up side, apart from being $95 cheaper each than the Falkens, I discovered that wet weather roadholding in the 10kph to 70kph speed range is more to do with the compound than the tread. The Kumho's are known to 'flat spot' if the car isn't driven for a few days - suggesting a very soft compound - which will be good for wet roadholding.
S'nut
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About a month ago I wrote off my 280ZX (actually some woman in a Ford station wagon who can't give way did it).. So obviously it was time to buy a new car..
I was going to go with the obvious (Commodore SS) until I happened to see a rather slick lookin' Convertible 4th-Gen Camaro Z28. Brought back fond memories of every other Camaro or Firebird I owned back in Canada.. So I bought it..
I probably should have done a bit more research into all the problems of owning a relatively new American car over here, but I didn't. I checked out everything else on the car though - except the tires that is.. Normally the very first time I even look at a car on a lot I kick the tires, pull out a penny (or since I'm in Oz now, a 5-cent coin) and check if the treads cover the Queen's head. But I was so concerned about everything else that I didn't even think about it.
Only after two weeks, when a mate pointed out my American Racing wheels and made a joke about how much tires were going to cost me for this thing (P275/40ZR17) did I notice the tread wear!
The rear tires are Falken Ziex's (and I have to agree.. They suck! I even lose traction coming off the on-ramp to the freeway at 45km/h) but they at least have 85-90% of the tread left. The front's on the other hand are some tire designed by Giugiaro (the exact make I can't remember and it's too dark outsie to go and check) and they probably don't even have 10% left. I don't even know how it passed a roadworthy.
From what I'm hearing I'm oing to have to spend over $2000 on tires pretty soon.. Which I'm not happy about..
I'm going to go back to the dealer and give him sh*t and hopefully I can get a new set out of him. Doubtful though.
I'm going to have to get at least two to replace those front ones.
I'm just not sure which ones to buy, and whether or not to put them on the front, or move the Falken's to the front and put the new ones on the back.
Melbourne doesn't get that wet, but when it does it can get very wet, and you never know when you need it, so I'm really looking for a tire that performs well on the street and in the wet. I'll probably never take her on the track, except maybe to drag, so I'm not too worried about that sort of performance.
Any thoughts? I'd appreciate any advice.
Also, if anyone knows of a good mechanice in Vic who knows LT1's and preferable Camaro's, could you let me know? I haven't found a mechanic yet (and I pray I don't need one for anything other than regular service)..
I'm starting to miss the Datto..
(But I forget all about it every time I get behind the wheel of the Camaro..)
Cheers!
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hey how u going i have a camaro aswell if u need any info on camaro's try the www.camaro-firebird.org club i am also a memeber just go into it and join the forum and they will help u out with any thing u need to know or parts for camaros dont worry its still easy to get parts over here for 4th gen camaros
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Well I took a punt and went into a Beaurepaires in Hawthorn (Vic) to ask about 275/40R17's and I got a call back today sying that they actually have Dunlops in that size! They're from Japan aparantly, and I didn't catch the model name over the phone, but according to him they're good (but you can't trust a tire salesman).. They don't have them in stock in the store, but can have them within 1-2 days.
Fully installed and balanced, $350 AUD each. At that price you can't go too wrong, and they've got to be better than the Falken's, but I'll try to check out what model they are and do some research on them.
I'll post what I find.
MJ355 - thanks.. I just joined CF.org. What kind of Camaro do you have?
Cheers!
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hey how u going i have a 91 model camaro z28 convertiable its white my alias is OZ Z28 talk to u on the forum
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Hi Fast Black, re tyres for your car, just thought you should know, during my research I discovered that different sizes of the same brand can have different qualities - the WRX mob have several posts relating to that. So an xxx brand 16" tyre may be top gear but the 17" a dog.
I'd recommend finding some info from other owners.
Personally I can't see even a bald 275 wide tyre being a problem in the dry - so I've focussed on wet weather handling - The new Kumho's I bought haven't been tested in the wet yet - BTW, I only require the same handling I had on my Fairlane ! I'm not trying to get Formula one handling.