NSW Corvettes

Restoration & Modification Projects => Restoration Projects => Topic started by: Bfit on July 14, 2011, 12:58:26 PM

Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on July 14, 2011, 12:58:26 PM
Hi every one
I am hoping to get a bit of feed back on what problems  I mite  run in to fitting a LS3 in  to a C3
I am sure some one out there will have already done this

Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Scott on July 14, 2011, 02:44:00 PM
I think the biggest problem is getting the correct sump and ancillaries. I never worked out if the local commondore ones are correct.  I'm pretty sure the sump is the wrong one and you'd need an aftermarket one.

There are engine mount plates that allow the engine to be mounted very easily. There are a few different designs that put the engine forward or higher/lower, but you don't want the sump too low. You have to work out the best comprimise.

With the gearbox, half of the problems mentioned previously still exist if you go the T56.  You'll need to cut/fab the cross member, shorten the tailshaft, convert the car to hydraulic clutch master and sort out the elec/mech speedo problem.  The shifter may need a little modification to get it to come up through the right place.

Using the 4 speed auto wiill solve the hyd clutch issue but I'm not 100% sure if there is enough room in the trans tunnel.  Tail shaft, speedo and cross member will still be an issue, as will fitting the shifter to the console.

Then there is the wiring.  Enougn places fo LSX conversions these days, so that shouldn't be too much problem to find someone to do it.  You can probably get a harness from the states that will get you most of the way there.

Lastly, to get it engineered you will need all the pollution gear from what ever year the donor car is. So, charcoal cannister, cat converters etc.  All that crap.

One grey area is if you use an after market block.  Since they aren't from a car of any particular year, you may not require any pollution gear apart from what the car is originally specced in. (ie no cats)  You'd have to investigate this further though as I haven't looked into that as much.
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on July 14, 2011, 03:11:20 PM
I would be getting the engine out of the US from a contact I have
 it would come with  sump for the vette and accessories high mounted on the front

The engines are built out of new GM components
and come with all the pollution gear. I don't mind fitting all that.
Do my bit to reduce pollution, on this car anyway.

engineers are a worry as no two have the same ideas
at 6.2L its a bit more than an over bore  from a 5.7 but arguable when it comes to doing it
Engine is about 50KG lighter   the only thing they could complain about is HP
And that can be tuned down   to a few hundred if required.
 
 How is HP measured for rego now days
I have not looked in to it yet
  But Hp used to be worked out on piston diameter
Goes back to the old steam days
that may well have changed,  since I did any of this ( mmm over 30 years )
one would think the powers to be would like the lower emissions and better km/ L


mechanically its straight forward  bolting it in there will  be ease.
 things to work out
radiator size  
how to adapt the tachometer
which engineer to Use
learning something about computer controlled  petrol engine ?( may be this should be listed first )

 Bfit

Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Scott on July 14, 2011, 04:10:31 PM
So would it be built from a GM or aftermarket block?  It may make a difference to the engineer.  As will using the factory computer vs aftermarket.

Aren't the engines fly by wire?  You may need a suitable accelerator pedal set-up too.

I thought the rules for engine swaps were based on displacement, not horsepower.  Having a separate chassis helps with this lots. What year car is it going into?

There are plenty of threads on the US forums about the conversions. While it's not a straight bolt in, it's not too hard.
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on July 15, 2011, 10:29:01 AM
IF I do this It will be in to  79
 computer and wiring are Gm
I have to ask the question about the block
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on July 18, 2011, 03:51:28 PM
I have  bought a LS1 to  learn  about these engine
I guess I will find out all the pit falls  for here on

I have been told this conversion  it just to hard
to many issues  
Is that not a good reason  to do it
 and test  ones resolve and skills.

I will start posting photos as I work it out.
But first I have to work out how to post photos?
that might be hard !

Jethro I may have to ring you up and get the finer points ON posting photos
   
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 08, 2011, 11:04:42 AM
Has any one  seen any good ideas on where to place the ECM  in  a C3
I would like to fit inside the car
More that likely it will go in the LH  guard
Any ideas  
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: BOSCHVETTE on November 09, 2011, 08:11:36 AM
I priced this conversion up about 2 years ago and thought without engine and gearbox included it would be about $15-$18k to do it properly there is alot more work in it then people think.
I dont believe its worth it.
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: wabco40 on November 09, 2011, 01:46:27 PM
Quote from: BOSCHVETTE link=topic=8633.msg1045941446#msg1045941446
I priced this conversion up about 2 years ago and thought without engine and gearbox included it would be about $15-$18k to do it properly there is alot more work in it then people think.
I dont believe its worth it.


$15-18 grand without engine/gearbox sounds a bit steep.
Is this doing it yourself or paying someone to do it?
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 09, 2011, 02:26:35 PM
I have to admit is is time consuming
But then  I have  moved the engine several times
and now i have purchased three  different sumps.

 
 
If you were doing it  on hourly it may run out to be  expensive.

I first bought and engine and gear box   ( mistake )
it cost far to much to buy all the parts to install and finish the installation.

After  starting to job
I bought a  commodore complete  which is drivable   you get every  thing to do the job  for a Few K
this is the only way  to go

Not allowing for time I would expect $  will run in to about 5k to 7k
when you consider the cost  to Run a 350 SB   the LS1 will pay for it self  in reasonable time if the car is  driven regularly

last weekend I did 550k in my 79 and eat up  180$ in fuel.
I would expect  the LS1 which makes more HP to use  half that.

When I get to the finish I would be more the willing to pass on any info to any one wanting to do this conversion.

Thinking about  this
engine and 4l60E and a complete car
a few sumps, harness mods,  engine mount adapter plates that don't  do the job
the 7k is gone.
I also bought a 76 to trail fit is all into  before  I will fit to my 79 model
Getting out of control ?

as the saying goes
 NOTHING ventured nothing gained

Bfit



 
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Jethro on November 09, 2011, 08:57:20 PM
Bfit the VE Commy Wreck with 6 ltr is the way ta go and you might even be able to sell some of the pannel work off on ebay:bannana:
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 09, 2011, 10:10:28 PM
Hi jethro
I am not keen on the ls2 and 3 as sold here in Aus'
they dont come with cable throttle
For the first one I am doing    the LS1 is best  to learn on
you can buy a commodore  with under A 100K for less than the so called coversions sold by the wreackers
in fact under 3k if you  wait for the rite buy.

and with some luck the 76 I have will sell with the  LS1 and 4l60E  as well as the original engine and trany as project  to some one
If not I have some other ideas for it
Bfit



Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: BOSCHVETTE on November 10, 2011, 05:44:16 PM
Quote from: wabco40 link=topic=8633.msg1045941447#msg1045941447
Quote from: BOSCHVETTE link=topic=8633.msg1045941446#msg1045941446
I priced this conversion up about 2 years ago and thought without engine and gearbox included it would be about $15-$18k to do it properly there is alot more work in it then people think.
I dont believe its worth it.


$15-18 grand without engine/gearbox sounds a bit steep.
Is this doing it yourself or paying someone to do it?


no thats doing about 60% of the work myself,but when i mean do it properly i mean brake up grade to suit, spring and shock change for the new weight up front so it doesnt sit a mile in the air and diff ratio change to suit.this includes engineers cert.
If you paid some one to do the whole lot it would be alot more expensive for sure.

Dont forget you have wiring work,new extractors/exhaust work, both cross members modified, tunnel modified, clutch conversion, fly by wire modification on late model motors, air con mods power steer mods if you choose to run these,radiator replacement and all hoses to suit these items,tacho sender mods, speedo mods, tailshaft mods intake mods and i wasnt sure if you needed to move steering components so as you can see it adds up very fast and a lot of people dont think of most of these things until they get to the problem.:drag::drag::drag:
good luck mate it is a HUGE job.
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Thunder Kiss on November 11, 2011, 12:34:38 PM
Here's a link to someone doing the LS into C3 swap in QLD at the moment.
Details here: LINK (http://www.australiancorvettes.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=7781).
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 14, 2011, 04:57:07 PM


(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture037.jpg)

I will post a few photos now  
thanks to a call from Nick to put me  straight  on how its done


I am trying to work out how to post photos
Any tips
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Jethro on November 14, 2011, 05:27:28 PM
Quote from: Bfit link=topic=8633.msg1045941478#msg1045941478

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture037.jpg)

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture037.jpg

I am trying to work out how to post photos
Any tips
Bfit



Try this link Rob....

http://nswcorvettes.com.au/forum/viewthread.php?tid=8013
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 14, 2011, 05:32:09 PM
Thanks Nick
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: 72vet on November 14, 2011, 05:36:32 PM
Always happy to help :thumb:.

Then again, now that we’ve let you loose with posting Pictures :lol:
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 14, 2011, 05:38:33 PM
Thanks Jethro
the link  confirms  just what Nick has just told me
It is so simple
You  wont believe how long I have been  trying to work this out
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 14, 2011, 05:47:22 PM
Here we go,
I picked up the 76  to do the install
 some  of the install photos as I work out the issues in fitting the LS1

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/76front.jpg)
 front  view 76 vette

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/76rear.jpg)
rear view 76 vette

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture057.jpg)

ECU  location LHS under washer bottle

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture043-1.jpg)

pan clearance  this Is a Camaro  oil pan fitted to Ls1
I have been told that 10mm is desirable but 5mm is enough
Bfit

Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 16, 2011, 08:29:08 AM
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Transmissionmountfromunderneath.jpg)
Trany mount  photo from underneath
manufactured from 4mm steel

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Transmissionmounttopview.jpg)
Trany mount viewed for top
Drilling for mount  measures 50mm  to front of hole  to cross member measured on underside of mount
elongation in hole measures 20mm front to rear, 11.5mm in width.
 
Step in bracket 25mm measured from top of cross member  to top of bracket where rubber mount sits.


Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: sirfixalot on November 16, 2011, 08:31:33 PM
Top job on X-member tounge good to see your not hacking & chopping but using original holes in x-member & making parts to suit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Scott on November 17, 2011, 08:50:02 AM
Looks like there is some good progress happening.  All the work should make for a great street car.
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 17, 2011, 11:45:42 AM
8" booster

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/8inchdueldiaphragmbooster.jpg)

I  am trying this to get more room  above  the tappet cover
things are to tight  with 9" booster.
using 8" booster will require and additional vacuum  tank to increase  capacity.
 water bottle filler is turned to the rear  to give space to fit relay and fuse panel.

Has any one seen any good ideas for air filter
I am looking a moving radiator down in the frame 2"  to  allow  for  over  the radiator induction
How ever I have not seen any decent filtration systems.  I can use  in that method of cold air induction






'
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 18, 2011, 11:00:15 AM
critical Clearances
these clearances  were obtained with engine sitting in frame
1/2" forward of  original  engine position  measured from  block / bell housing joint
offset in mounting bracket from four mounts that hold bracket to engine is 9/16" down ( ie engine lifted up )
measured  form center line of top two mounting holes
I will post a drawing soon.
bracket made from 5/8" material  using an Mackay mounts part no. A1128
Note i found that the Mackay mount measures  close to 1 1/8" think  where the US mounts I have measure 3/4" thick

the engine could be set up lower in the frame
but where I have this now the oil pan of the 4L60E is at the same level got ground clearance as the oil pan for a  BB engine

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/clearancefullrightsteer.jpg)

clearance full  right hand steer


(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/clearancefullleftsteer.jpg)

clearance full Left hand steer

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Clearancealternatortoenginemounting.jpg)
 clearance  alternator to engine mount

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Clearanceunderalternator.jpg)
clearance  under mounting

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/Picture045.jpg)
transmission / chassis  
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 19, 2011, 10:54:22 AM
I came across this mount on Ebay  its the best looking adapter mount I have seen commercially
the offset down for the  engine mount looks about 5/16" to 3/8"

You could not make the bracket  for the asking price
how ever freight costs  may make it a break even situation
balancing making your own against purchasing a production manufactured plate.  

I have just ordered the 6061 alloy to make my finished adapters
@ $130  AU and there is a few hours machining in them as one of deal.

Note Australian  manufactured  engine mount will not  bolt  straight to the dirty-dingo adapter plate.
A rebate is need for clearance  of the stiffener rib on the back on the engine mount.  
Bfit  
 

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/DD-LS-Plate-4.jpg)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/180754263876?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 23, 2011, 09:37:35 AM
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/6061mountplate1.jpg)

Engine mount adapter plate  6061 tool grade Aluminum
the  mount is machined to clear the mackay mount
19mm wide x 4.5 mm in depth
 

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/mackaymount.jpg)
Mackay mount note rib in rear none of the US made plate will accommodate these mounts

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/LS1/mackaymount1.jpg)
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 24, 2011, 11:54:42 AM
Has any one used any
 DAKOTA DIGITAL  gauges
I would like to hear from you if you have used there gauges
to get your opinion  
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 29, 2011, 08:25:07 PM
I am thinking no one has used the Dakota gauges
should I conclude something from that.
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Jethro on November 29, 2011, 08:36:31 PM
Quote from: Bfit link=topic=8633.msg1045941577#msg1045941577
I am thinking no one has used the Dakota gauges
should I conclude something from that.
Bfit


I reckon
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Scott on November 30, 2011, 09:05:10 AM
Quote from: Bfit link=topic=8633.msg1045941577#msg1045941577
I am thinking no one has used the Dakota gauges
should I conclude something from that.
Bfit


I think you can conclude that they are expensive, and that while many people wish they could use them, generally they opt for something cheaper, then always wish they could have spent that extra :grin:
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on November 30, 2011, 11:49:00 AM
Scott
 That is a very good possibility
 I had not considered that point of view
Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Scott on November 30, 2011, 06:19:51 PM
I've spoken to more than one person at car shows that have rebuilt a car and added good aftermarket gauges (autometer etc), and wished they had gone straight to a dakota digital gauges, or are planning to upgrade.

I was looking at some cheaper digital gauges (cyberdyne)  but I think if I do swap to aftermarket, I'll go with good old reliable VDO's.  Dakota would be great, but I can't justify the price. The money would be better spent on alloy heads or fuel injection.
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on December 16, 2011, 10:40:26 AM
hi All I found these  manifolds on Ebay
fit like a Glove
And should keep the RTA  happy
They makes for a real stock engine look
Bfit
(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture102.jpg)
I  belive that are off a
VE SS commodore 6.0L L98 engine

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture108.jpg)

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture106.jpg)


(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture105.jpg)

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture103.jpg)


Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on December 16, 2011, 10:51:11 AM
I am in the process of getting a Brogeson power steering box
With the removal of the power steering cylinder I should be able to lower the motor 8mm to 10 mm
 This will give more clearance in the transmission  tunnel
allow  the retention of the 9" booster.
Bfit

Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on December 19, 2011, 09:23:40 AM
Coolant Reservoir
commodore  reservoir  fit  ok   in the position of the old over flow bottle.
If any of you have  seen a better reservoir, that i can get further under the guard let me know .

The reservoir is mounter on two brackets as per the original mounting in the commodore  using the three original rubber mountings .
this is fiddly to get rite and maintain clearance.
it is achievable though.
 

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture112.jpg)

(http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i423/Bfitsvette/Picture113.jpg)

Bfit
Title: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on December 28, 2011, 04:10:18 PM
hello all
has any one used a Volant 25857C Cool Air Intake Kit
I would like some feed back  please
Bfit
Title: Re: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: bazzas77 on September 16, 2013, 09:09:18 PM
I realize its been a while and you have probably already have a CAI Bob , so i was just curious in what you ended up doing ?
Title: Re: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Bfit on September 16, 2013, 09:14:25 PM
I realize its been a while and you have probably already have a CAI Bob , so i was just curious in what you ended up doing ?

Mate I have got that job on the back burner
Until I have he 70 model sorted
I will be back to it soon
Bfit
Title: Re: 76 its a little sad this is the trail vehicle
Post by: Jethro on September 16, 2013, 09:33:56 PM
 
Mate I have got that job on the back burner
Until I have he 70 model sorted
I will be back to it soon
Bfit

Tonto, 70 Sorted? What about your 69 Sorted than the 73  i'm thinking you got to many Vettes  :laugh: