NSW Corvettes
Technical Tips => Post 84 => Topic started by: Stingraynut on September 02, 2003, 02:07:39 PM
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I am getting my AIR pump gutted – replacing vanes, bearings and drum with new bearings and shaft. My 88 vette is my daily driver and living in Cairns means there’ll be a delivery delay both ways as well as the time for the engineering work, to be done in Brisbane.
Has anyone got an 87-91 AIR pump I could borrow for 2 weeks ? Or one I can buy and get sent to the engineering workshop ?
If you read this and know someone who has a spare, please pass this on – I’d like to get this job done, my pump is getting very noisy.
Thanks
S’nut
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I have the one I removed from my 77, but how similar it is to your late model one I have no idea.
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Why don't you bypass the airpump alltogether and gain some more horsepower
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I am removing the drum etc from inside so it will be a freewheeling pulley but if I remove it completely I’m not sure if I can get a serpentine belt to fit the shorter distance and haven’t checked how it will affect the angles to the other pulleys.
If you’ve done this, please tell me everything, I’m planning to send the pump away on Monday 8th September
Thanks Brutus, I don’t know how similar the 77 would be and if it would fit – it doesn’t have to connect up to anything – just hold up the serpentine belt for a week.
S’nut
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All the Corvette parts places in the US make a pulley replacement for the AIR pump on later models and from what I've seen of it, it can't be all that difficult to come up with your own version. I tried seaching for a pic for you, but came up empty sorry.
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CORVETTE CENTRAL: 1984-1996 CORVETTE PARTS (800) 345-4122
Note: Once your online order has been placed, it can not be added to or changed.
Product
Class Year Description Comments Part No. Price Pkg Buy
Qty. Buy
Item
5 85-91 Air Pump Eliminator Pulley Kit Black 304439 159.95 Each
1 - 1 / 1
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Thanks Brutus, for the info re replacement AIR stuff.
I appreciate you going to some trouble for me. I’ve been researching this for about 3 months and have seen most of the replacement options etc.
The cost of most of the replacement AIR pump machinery is expensive – usually minimum of US$150, (the link you gave to the Corvette Central one is US $160 plus shipping). Recon ones are US$50 and new ones are US$100 – plus shipping, so financially it seems poor option.
It was only two weeks ago that I realised that all the replacements looked like ugly bits of mechano from my youth. So I’d rather gut mine, gaining the momentum advantage of losing the drum – I’ve had mine apart and that drum is heavy – here’s a link to my info and pics on that - http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=606732
And at least externally everything will look standard.
JOH Engineering of 12 Short St, Bundamba, Qld 4304. Ph 07 3282 2194 have quoted me $180 to gut mine and fit two sealed bearing with a central shaft. The pulley will be adjustable via a grub screw which is a good option to ensure everything is in line.
Unless Quickvette has some info on shorter belts and pulley angles ?
S’nut
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this may sound dumb (i hope not though )
f bodies have the same airpump installed :(
what we do is remove the airpump and re route the serpentine belt to completely do away with the said pump belt required is easily available and a diagram of routing the new serpentine belt can be found at thirdgen.org
cheaper than stuffing around with moddifying a stock item as well as it only costs you the price of a belt :)
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AusRs, not dumb at all. I’m very grateful to be getting any replies and I’ve heard somewhere that you can get a shorter belt but not sure if it was Corvette or not and also whether it was US or Aus.
Also I know the angle of the belt as it approaches and leaves each pully is important for grip (but not what angle is good or bad)
I’m not entirely sure what F body means….so now I can say, sorry if I sound dumb !!…….please explain…..
I only have the one belt, the serpentine, it goes everywhere- idler, alt, PS, Alt, AC compressor, AIR pump……oh yeah, and the cranckshaft.
S’nut
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i have a camaro (f body ) that has the same serpentine belt setup that the corvette runs
you can get hold of a different belt and re route it so it goes around the accessories in the same way (well slightly different ) .mine has been like that for about 3 years now with no ill effects :)
this is the way my belt is now routed
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/attachment.php?s=&postid=1201469
hopefully the image will come out .if not go to this thread
http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/attachment.php?s=&postid=1201469
and look for the post by
usa1racing
hope that helps
i have a belt spare in my car with the correct lenght BUT cant get to it at the moment
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I hope you are right AusRs (so we can stop spending US$160 on air pump eliminator kits) but I don't know if that setup will work on 85-91 C4's.
The layout indicated in the diagram in your link (while similar) is different to the accesory layout on 85-91 C4's. I really don't know if you can eliminate the air pump pulley on an 85-91 C4 and use a shorter belt without having the belt foul on something.
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do a search on thirdgen.org under re routing serpentine belt
there are many threads on the subject and yes there was 2 different belt routings on camaro,s as well both of which can be modded to remove the air pump
hope that helps
btw i am positive the brackets from an f body serpentine and a vette are the same brackets
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Many a time I have wondered how to get rid of the smog pump on my serpentine belt equipped car. Not only is it a parasitic device on the engines power output but it also adds weight and clutters up the engine bay. After experimenting with modifying the balancer and different length belts I realised it was just about impossible using the stock belt routing. I was made aware of the best way to remove it on our tech board by those who have done it.
Remember, removing emmisions equiptment is only for those who undergo no emmisions testing or whos vehicles are for racing only.
Its very simple really, the whole trick lies in the belt routing. The stock setup in a clockwise manner: Tensioner, over the alternator, down to the power steering pump, under the crank, under and over the water pump, back to the ac compressor. The problem in just removing the pump with this belt routing is that the tensioner will interfere with the belt coming off of the water pump to the AC compressor.
To remedy the situation a different belt routing is neccesary. Clockwise instead of having the belt coming off of the power steering pump going to the bottom of the crank, have it come up over the top of the water pump, back under the waterpump then around the crank and off the bottom of the crank to the AC compressor. All of your accessories will turn as they did, and you will be able to remove the polution pump. If this all sounds A little confusing, look at the picture below. Courtesy of MadMax
You will however need a longer belt, I used Dayco 968K6 belt. It is basically a 96.8" 6 rib belt. All parts stores stock just about every length of belt in every width. They should be able to find it using these numbers. If you have an underdrive pully you will need Dayco pn# 935K6 which is actually shorter than the stock belt by one inch.
(http://www.thirdgen.org/newdesign/tech/images/belt2.jpg)
note this does not show power steering pump refer back to the diagram
edit
found the belt size
it is a gates micro v 6pk2455(on the front of pack
written on the side
k060966
purchased from the local bearing supply company
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….so far, 58 views !!! I was beginning to think there was just 4 or 5 people on this forum – come on vetteaholics, choose a cool username and join in, it’s easy as –
Aus Rs. Thank’s for the diagram, much appreciated - I’ll check mine tomorrow, to see how similar they are – I know that my tensioner is lower down, between the AC and the crank.
While I was asking you, you were typing a reply…Hmmm Psychic ? the question was -Do you know the length of your belt and was it available here in Aus ? Ok, as I said, I’ll check mine out, I’ll dig out a simialr diagram – as I said my tensioner is different but from you pic it is in a BETTER place…. I’ll get back to you.
I’ll be removing my pump on Sunday arvo, to send down to Brisbane. I really hope that if there’s an alternative, as you suggest, of throwing the pump away and using a shorter belt, I will know all the facts and be convinced before then. Thank-you for your time and patience with me, I really appreciate all info.
Vette Obsessed, I agree, it’s very important that the angles to the pulleys are correct, etc etc – geez I wish someone had sorted this before – but I expect they have – it would be great to have a ‘Tech Tips’ area like Corvette Forum to store some Aussie info.
I’ve learnt quite a bit this year – changing rear globes, a lot about the RHD conversion, C68 climate control, how the sports seats are held together – hog rings, clips blah blah, brakes, auto trans, rear diff oil change, lights, wiring, suspension, tyres, Bose stereo, fitting aftermarket stereo, wipers, brakes, fuel injection/MAF/AIR pump, accelerator - cable and spring, making USA size rego plates, O2 sensors (currently considering fitting a heated sensor), cooling fan switches, ….OK, I’ll stop the list – that’s only the first few months, there’s so much more to know.
I’m building a website with some info, but focusing more on jobs done than how they were done. – www.myvette.20m.com … not much there yet, I’ve got to sort the real world – AIR pump etc before I’ll have time for cyberworld.
BTW – the weather in Cairns has been perfect this week (not the weekend though) I’ve had the roof off for 3 days, got sunburnt on Tuesday with just 30 mins driving the city at lunchtime. My seats are to die for, the stereo is AWESOME – the exhaust note is subtle by growly, Oh Yeah, I am really enjoying my Corvette, it’s all I imagined - and I imagined heaps.
Also BTW - I’ve got a digital thermometer with two probes showing me cabin and vent temps – today, the 3rd day of spring it was 35C in the cabin, driving with the roof off. I put the aircon on and the vents went down to below 20C so I had cool air blowing on me (and everyone else at the traffic lights……I’m DETERMINED to have good aircon for the summer…….but that’s another project.
S’nut
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AusRs, the bracketing for the accessories is different.
The tensioner on our cars is roughly where the air pump seems to be on your car. The air pump is roughly where the alternator is and the alternator is to the right of the where it is shown in your picture. The routing of the belt is different.
I'm not trying to knock your info. I'd post a pic but that isn't too easy for me to do at the moment... Just trying to help work out if there is an alternative like you suggest.
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Here’s a diagram of the C4 belt route, from the GM Manual.
It looks like the belt from the Alt to the water pump will be too close to the P/S pump, but I’ll check that in the real world today. Maybe I can raise my Alt enough to keep it clear.
S’nut
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The diagram doesn’t show, I’ll try pasting it –
S’nut
Also didn’t work –
I’ve posted the diagram to my website –
http://www.users.bigpond.com/mphealey/CorvetteDream/ForumPics/C4Belt.bmp
S’nut
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Bad News - I’ve checked on my engine and the diagram is essential to scale – there’s no way the belt can run from anywhere except where the Air Pump is.
I looked at shifting the Alt to where the AIR pump is, the AIR pump bracket is a different width to the Alt so that would be a problem but also the back of the Alt sticks out further than the pump, I think the rocker cover would be in the way by 5-15mm.
Oh well, it was worth a try. It would be a lot easier than constructing a bracket or re-designing the pump – I expect lots of people have been down this track already – hence the various brackets. I still think they look like bits of mechano and would rather have the casing of the pump sitting there….quietly.
So……has anyone got an 87-91 AIR pump I can borrow or buy ?
It doesn’t have to work, I can send it straight to JOH engineering, they’re going to rip out the drum and old bearings, weld in new front and backs, put in new bearings and a central shaft – all freewheeling.
There’s a guy on CF who’se name is ‘Caratemymoney’ – I’m starting to identify with that.
S’nut
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bugger
i didnt realise that the vettes had such a different pully arrangement that the camaro ......was easy for me to complete the change
one last thing
has anyone on ANY vette forums removed the air pump ......maybe they have a different way of doing it
just a thought
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Originally posted by AusRs
......was easy for me to complete the change
Don't rub it in...(j/k):22
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Thanks for all your input AusRs, it was worth looking at and your viewpoint of “IT IS POSSIBLE’ can often make things happen.
So why are Camaro’s called ‘F’ bodies – they’re not ‘F’ibreglass ,…so ?
I’m on a big learning curve… I only found out IROC stood for International Race of Champions last week – for the last 4 years I thought it meant ugly headlight arrangement on an otherwise good looking car.
I’ve been so focussed on having a vette that no other car has been at all interesting (since about 1997). I joined the ‘American Car Club of Cairns’ and now, having achieved my ambition, I’m free to begin to appreciate other cars again. I’ve always loved big cars and the Camaro with the targa roof, rear seats etc is my second favourite.
S’nut
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vette would be my next choice IF i wanted a 2 seater ...becoming a grandfather this year (later ) it will be nice to cart grandchild around in style :)
as for the f body it is the term given to the camaro and firebird by GM
just a name as for the ugly headlights .....thats called a muscle car look :)
trans am with the pop up headlights are trying to look to much like a vette in my opinion
t tops rule .....any car that you can take the tops off in good weather are great ......to many people miss out on our aussie summers being couped up with a roof
look around a little more with the air pump and maybe there is a way round that hopeless vette belt routing .......we got the batter end of the deal in that department
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stingraynut, I have my old air pump packed up in the shed and can get it out tonight and get it to a post office, just e-mail me your address.
I would like it returned when you are done with it and don't want it modified so perhaps you can install mine onto your car while you send your original off for modification?
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Thats excellent news, vette obsessed, wish I’d been able to check my emails earlier than 7pm, I could have sent you my address.
Firstly is yours an 87-91 ? otherwise the brackets may be different.
If so……I promise not to modify it, or damage it. Won’t be connecting the pipes up, just the bracket points to support the belt.
I’ll fix you up for the postage and whatever, and return it asap.
If yours is 87-91 (I did know what year your vette was but it’s lost now amongst a brain full of vette pictures and two computer crashes)
Could you send it express post tomorrow (sat) morning ?
Thanks,
S’nut
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S'nut, my Vette is a 90 so no problems there.
I just got home so I couldn't get it out tonight but I'll try get it to the post office tomorrow morning to express it out. I'll probably be able to post here on Sunday to confirm.
I've got your details written down now so you can edit your post if you choose.
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Thanks Vette Obsessed, I’ve edited my post now. I think you have my email address anyway ?
As you’re in NSW and it’s the weekend – if you think express is too expensive, just post whatever you think is OK , I’m always in a hurry but probably $15- to $20 is enough cost. – I’ll repay you whatever.
Thanks,
S’nut
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Yes, I have your e-mail address.
I should be able to get it to a post office tomorrow anyway - I should be passing by one that is open on Saturday during my travels tomorrow morning. If I can get it into the PO tomorrow it should leave first thing Monday.
I'll use discretion with the mailing cost.
Once I get a chance after I send it I will e-mail you to let you know that I've sent it and via what method.
Cheers,
Andrew
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Thanks, very much appreciated, it means I can drive my car while my Pump is being engineered, use cheaper delivery both ways , don’t have to hassle the engineers to get it done quickly and if there’s a delay it won’t matter.
I see now why I need two Corvettes
S’nut
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Originally posted by Stingraynut
I see now why I need two Corvettes
S’nut
You needed a reason?:22
Andrew or S'nut....could either of you take a pic of the AIR pump you have so I can compare it to my old one just to see if or what differences there might be between the different models please? Just curious.
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Hi Brutus, here’s a link to a pic I took a few weeks ago, while it was apart.
http://www.users.bigpond.com/mphealey/CorvetteDream/ForumPics/Airpump1.jpg
And this link to an explanation of what’s shown. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=606732
If you want, when I take mine off I’ll try to take pics of the front and back ?
S’nut
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Hi vette Obsessed, just checking to see if you managed to reach the post Saturday am ?
S’nut
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Originally posted by StingraynutIf you want, when I take mine off I’ll try to take pics of the front and back ?
S’nut
Thanks....that'd be very helpful.
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S'nut, you have e-mail.
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Yow, Vette Obsessed’s AIR pump arrived and I swapped them over, discovered mine would hardly turn, felt like it was moving through syrup.
I greased it with Molybedenum greas – Hi temp ect a while back, feels like it’s turned to wet cement, reckon I got to it just in time.
I’ve sent it of to JOH Engineering, Bundamba to be engineered into a freewheeling hub.
I really appreciate Vette Obsessed’s generosity in lending me his old pump. We’ve never met and live states apart. Thanks
Brutus - I was in such a hurry to post mine off that I forgot to take pictures, will do when it gets back
S’nut