C4 Power Steering Rack wanted.

[Vettech]

Guys I need a steering rack, genuine C4, any condition (exc cracked or broken) that can be refurbed ready to replace existing.

OR!  Does anyone know what type the converters used on C4's?

Mine is original rotated 180 with a splash of weld and a touch of butchered. Looks appauling.
There has to be a better way.

You probably think I'm making that up, ummm - one bolt uses a "nylox nut" which they then welded !?!...
Another bolt is so long it sits inside the "harmonic balancer".....

I wont mention the steering shaft which I repaired/replaced before it became two pieces.

[bfit]

Look at a commodore rack

[sirfixalot]

RHD C4 rack is a chev Citation. From memory the input shaft is an odd size 19mm maybee if the original intermediate shaft is used

[Vettech]

Ok. Is this something thats available, before I try  google.

[sirfixalot]

I believe the chev citation is a front steer LHD car when rack is turned over it works for a RHD rear steer car. Apparently it has the same dimensions as a C4 vet. I have also been told either Subaru or Saab racks were used to convert cars. Then you have to match up the input shaft of rack to the intermediate shaft

[sabre]

Saab is a furphy. The Saginaw logo looks like saab. The correct part used on most conversions is Saginaw 26004152. This rack was used on 92-96 Buick Century; 86-99 Buick Le Sabre and 92-93 Cadillac Deville.
A dead ringer foe the C4 rack but made for mounting on the rear of the cross member. Flip and mount forward and it works right.
Good luck getting one locally.

[Vettech]

Thanks very much guys, as always a wealth of infomation.

[Vettech]

Took the Bubble (Yaris) for service at Jensens Auto @ Mint today, whilst there I picked his brains to see if I bought that Vic based C4 rack if he would re-seal and service it. He said "what for", well I explained, I wanted to replace mine. Bulls#×^ - you cant just turn a LHD rack over 180° because its going the wrong way.
I already had his exploded diagram book that he sometimes quotes, I said "ok then we swap these pipes, to supply fluid to the opposite sides of the piston".
Well and good he said - what about the fact that the steering shaft is meshed to the rack, you turn right and the piston/fluid is trying to turn left.

Bugger I've re-confused myself, but no one on the forum pick me up on this, this means the rack on my car is not as I thought,  original.

Ummmmm. Best I look to getting the existing one sorted / serviced and fitted betted than it is.

I would have thought as GM is smart (dont say it) a VB ~ VK Rack would be a Chev mirror image. Any ideas wellcome!??!?!??!

[bfit]

I have one of each ill let you know

[sabre]

Took the Bubble (Yaris) for service at Jensens Auto @ Mint today, whilst there I picked his brains to see if I bought that Vic based C4 rack if he would re-seal and service it. He said "what for", well I explained, I wanted to replace mine. Bulls#×^ - you cant just turn a LHD rack over 180° because its going the wrong way.
I already had his exploded diagram book that he sometimes quotes, I said "ok then we swap these pipes, to supply fluid to the opposite sides of the piston".
Well and good he said - what about the fact that the steering shaft is meshed to the rack, you turn right and the piston/fluid is trying to turn left.

Bugger I've re-confused myself, but no one on the forum pick me up on this, this means the rack on my car is not as I thought,  original.

Ummmmm. Best I look to getting the existing one sorted / serviced and fitted betted than it is.

I would have thought as GM is smart (dont say it) a VB ~ VK Rack would be a Chev mirror image. Any ideas wellcome!??!?!??!

Geez Douggie, time to rethink your title. 
Your mechanic is totally right. A rack is just gears so flipping it would have you steering in reverse UNLESS you move the rack from behind to in front or in front to behind. That fixes the direction issue. That's why you need a rack designed for behind the front crossmember for a C4 which has it mounted in front.
With respect to just changing the pipes: What are you thinking! Power Steering works on a moog valve controlling hydraulic flow to assist in the direction your trying to turn. Changing the pipes will mean the hydraulic pressure would be resisting any change. I gave you the part numbers you need above. You can only lead a horse.
I think if you reread the above both Sirfixalot and I corrected your expectation that you had an original C4 rack. 
Now about GM being smart. They are GMH used a local division of Borg Warner Gears to make Commodore racks and GM (USA) used their local provider (Saginaw Gear Division) to produce theirs. It would be nice if two separate global companies shared their designs to make it easy to copy but that would be like Ford and Holden sharing body panels so the Taiwan could make copies cheaper. Not gunna happen.
I did a Google search on the number I provided above and found a couple of suppliers in the US that do exchange racks. I suggest you just get one and bolt it in. Maybe fix some of the issues you listed (wrong bolts and mount problems) along the way.

[Vettech]

Thats three days, I expected some type of reply sooner. What have u been up to?
Yes, I suggested a pipe swap but it was immediately obvious that was wrong.

 I hate spending money, so I will do as Bfit suggests, rip it off, overhaul, refit.
When off I'll chech for brand, numbers marks etc.

"Moog valve" leave that with me - when I've recharged I'll see doctor Google.

It cant be placed in any other position, I'm not as good as Bfit, he can engineer up a storm.

And today after some "stuff" moving, I found my 1gal gas can, maybe there is another option.....

[MY081]

I recon when you pull it out it will be a Buick Rack .But Im in no Moog to argue !!!!!

[bfit]

I recon when you pull it out it will be a Buick Rack .But Im in no Moog to argue !!!!!

lol  I think you moog be right

[Vettech]

Just back from Cardiologist, I'm sure they should not be looking in orifices for my heart. Still alive.

So Bfit, is that guy you know at 300 Picton Rd.

[bfit]

Just back from Cardiologist, I'm sure they should not be looking in orifices for my heart. Still alive.

So Bfit, is that guy you know at 300 Picton Rd.

no trades as  Better Steering Service

[Vettech]

There is a little guy in Nicholas Cage movies about lost American treasure, who finally knows something Cage and the girl dont, I think I now know how he feels, pretty hard to get one past Sabre, "BUT" I think hes wrong !.

Moog valve may be on all manner of gear including aerospace and missles, but they are not to be seen mentioned in wiki on power steering.

Of course our discussion was only up to 1987. Electrohydraulic moog valves may be in new cars electric steering now, but not in 87.

Power assit steering goes back before 1900 when a Mr Fitts.. installed it on a US truck - god I hope thats not an abreviated name.

Ummmm so there!... 
but the principle of the torsion bar is fasinating. Read this 47 years ago, I still cant inderstand why the bar does not eventually break.?

 

[bfit]

There is a little guy in Nicholas Cage movies about lost American treasure, who finally knows something Cage and the girl dont, I think I now know how he feels, pretty hard to get one past Sabre, "BUT" I think hes wrong !.

Moog valve may be on all manner of gear including aerospace and missles, but they are not to be seen mentioned in wiki on power steering.

Of course our discussion was only up to 1987. Electrohydraulic moog valves may be in new cars electric steering now, but not in 87.

Power assit steering goes back before 1900 when a Mr Fitts.. installed it on a US truck - god I hope thats not an abreviated name.

Ummmm so there!... 
but the principle of the torsion bar is fasinating. Read this 47 years ago, I still cant inderstand why the bar does not eventually break.?

 

As long a you keep the bar operating with in 70 % of its elastic limit  it will last a long time.
but  ( there is always a but.)
the torsion bar works in almost perfect cyclic conditions, its going to break one day  usually at a change in diameter  in the shaft.

[Vettech]

The P76 v8 service manual had a fantastic set of exp diagrams and text on theory and operation etc very informative.

Breaking a bit like concrete.

[sabre]

Oh Vettech, I would have been hung drawn and quartered for quoting Wiki. Not accepted by CASA or DGTA as authoritative.
You are of course right. Moog is a brand name. A company that makes high precision control and flow valves (amongst other things).
Again you are right their valves are heavily used in aerospace due to their quality.
I used the term "moog" generically like many use the term "biro" to refer to a pen.
In my past life "moog" was the description used for a high quality control valve with minimal hysteresis or backlash. Heavily used for hydraulic control of Guided Weapons and aircraft.
I have no idea who manufactured the valves in either the Saginaw or the BW rack although I suspect it wasn't Moog due to their higher cost.
I trust this clarifies the moog issue.

[Vettech]

Now thats the Sabre we know and love - as sharp as ever.

And yes I'm getting like Bfit, relying on Wiki und Herr Doktor Google too much.

Once I would have jumped into my Encyclopedia Britanica, but the first burnt then along with all my underwater pics.

Oh well lifes a bitch and th.........................