My Black Bitza

[metalhead]

My '79 is on the hoist at the moment (rear suspension out), I'd be happy to measure anything you like. Mine is a factory 4 speed. I can measure angles, but we'd need to establish a baseline first (angle of chassis at gearbox crossmember perhaps?) to account for any differences in the angle of the car itself. Or I can measure height from top of crossmember to output shaft on gearbox? Or whatever would be most useful, just let me know and I'll measure it tonight after work.

Cheers,

Andrew.

[Scott]

Thanks mate. I don't think extra measurements will help though.  In the end I'll be limited by how much I can level out the engine and gearbox before it hits the floor.

[metalhead]

Fair enough, just figured it might be useful for a baseline. ~3 degrees is normal for engine/gearbox and diff angle in my (non-corvette) experience, I was intrigued by the post above regarding diff angle being 0.

[bfit]

Fair enough, just figured it might be useful for a baseline. ~3 degrees is normal for engine/gearbox and diff angle in my (non-corvette) experience, I was intrigued by the post above regarding diff angle being 0.

hi Metal
I have 4 c3`s and all the diffs are the same angle,  I am keen to hear form anyone who find theirs is different .
logic says the angles trans and diff  should be  congruent  to allow the universals to work correctly  and keep vibrations to a minimum.
At worst the two should be with in 1 deg   of drive and driven.
I wonder  what influence there is  in the fact  that engine  sits in the frame at an angle.
interesting field mechanics, there is always something different  to contemplate.
 
Id like to hear a good explanation or do I just have 4 cars that are wrong in this department
Why is it so ( is the question )
Bfit
 

[metalhead]

Yeh, interesting. We maybe shouldn't clog Scotts thread with discussion on it, but I might measure mine when I put the rear end back in just for curiosity sake. I agree that you normally want them at the same (or very close) angle, normally ~3 degrees, and that's what I've worked on when fabbing mounts and swapping boxes and rear ends in the past.

[Scott]

I didn't measure it, but the diff on mine seemed pretty close to 0 degrees.  Tonight I'll be pulling the headers off and trying to get the mounts to fit.  If I get around to it, I'll pump up the rear tyre and try measure some angles.  I'll be using a phone app, so not the most accurate, but should give a reasonable idea.

[bfit]

mate it is surprising how accurate the phone might be
mate sure you zero it against a level an see how you go
Bfit

[Scott]

My phone is 5 years old, so the technology may not be that advanced.  It's great for taking pics while I'm working in the shed though.  Nokias last forever.

[Scott]

On the weekend I cut the mount off the bracket supplied with the kit and re-welded it 20mm higher.  Final result the gearbox now sits a fair bit more level.  I'll have to fiddle with the diff angle a little but I should be able to get it to match now.

[bfit]

hi scott
Make sure that the rear of your transmission is higher that the diff input.
if the trans is lower than the  diff, with the trans angled down toward the rear  you will have a  problem.
 
Bfit
 

[Scott]

I can't get the trans any higher at the back.  It's at the point where it's almost touching the floor.  I'll be lifting the nose of the diff so that the trans and diff are parallel.  Then the tailshaft will do it's thing in between.

[Scott]

I've been making slow progress on this still.  There are a few pics on my old phone that I'll need to grab at some point.

The tailshaft is in, and the diff and gearbox are running close enough to parallel so there shouldn't be too many terrible vibrations.

One thing I did discover is the starter snout on automatic cars is aluminium, and is a few mm larger in size than the cast iron snout used on manual cars.  I spent quite some time trying to work out why my starter wouldn't go close to fitting, and they get heavy once you hold them up for a while.

I bought a cheap gear reduction starter of ebay.  After taking a few measurements I bolted it in, but I have no idea how I can check the clearance between the teeth without pulling the gearbox again...  I guess once I get more wires in I'll have an idea if it spins the engine or not.



I also had some fun drilling holes in the firewall for my hydraulic clutch master.  It's a 2 person job, which made it extremely difficult trying to do it myself.  After way too many hours I finally got the holes drilled in the right place and managed to bolt it up in place.  I just need to hook up the lines and reservior, hook it to the pedal and I'll have a clutch.





I also discovered that since lowering the engine to help with driveline angles, the power steering pump pulley was sitting on the front x-member.  For some reason there is a random adjuster bracket from who knows what holding the pump right out at the top, which pushes the pulled further down.  I removed that and I'll still only get 3mm clearance at best.  The ps pulley is pretty close to the x-member on vettes anyway, but I thought I'd like a little more clearance.

So I sliced the main bracket and I'll re-weld it up to gain another 5mm or so clearance.  Normally the alternator would be above the power steering pump on a vette, but mines over the other side as it's a truck motor with a long water pump, so lifting the pump shouldn't be an issue.









I need to weld it up now and bolt it back on.

[sirfixalot]

Interesting clutch master cylinder mounting does it make the master cylinder sit level does it have a remote reservoir?.Where was it sourced from

[bfit]

Talk to mal wood he does a nice set up that's goes on the side of the pedal box.
I like the old machanical set up .
Works , don't leak, functions in all temperatures and a bonus good feel.

Bfit

[Scott]

Interesting clutch master cylinder mounting does it make the master cylinder sit level does it have a remote reservoir?.Where was it sourced from

It's a willwood master but the whole kit came from american power train.  In a vette it will sit on a pretty decent angle to properly align with the pivot point on the clutch pedal. It has a remote reservoir, otherwise it'd hit on the booster.

Here's the willwood kit by itself:
http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderProd.aspx?itemno=260-10371

I looked into the Mal Wood under dash set-up for my Mustang.  I've heard they are good but it isn't cheap, to say the least.

[bfit]

i have seen a kit  on some of the vette forums that mounts a bracket  under the  booster with the provision to mount the clutch master when this one is shower.
 it takes the  load of the fiberglass.
bfit 

[Scott]

it takes the  load of the fiberglass.

There is a layer of steel in the footwell of my 73, with the glass on the engine side, so the load would be quite well distributed over the area.

[Scott]

I just dumped the pics off my old phone.  Nothing too exciting.  There are some string lines from when I did my wheel alignment, but nothing else, a pic of my new shorter diff mount and some of the shifter poking through.

[Scott]

After modifying the PS bracket, I needed something to adjust it and hold it in place, so I busted out the cardboard.



Transferred it to metal.





Kind of worked out how it would fit.





Then put some bends in it so it would line up right and trimmed it back.



It had to be flush as that face bolts to the front of the block.  I welded it up, and of course forgot to take any more pics of it.  It's been sprayed black and now holds the PS pump on teh front of the block, with good clearance to the front x-member.

Next I decided it's time for the engine to make some angry noises for the first time in many years.  Since there is no interior, or wiring loom past the firewall, I wired up a push button to hook to the starter.  Then I tried priming the oil with a drill. I had no idea if it was working until I pullet the oil pressure sender.  Once that was out and the dizzy was in, I kicked engine over using the starter and oil came out the sender hole, so all good.



I then tried to set the static timing, but ran into the issue of no spark.  Tried a few things, but I was pretty tired and not thinking straight.  Next night I checked the coil with a multimeter and it seemed fine.





I put the coil back in and kicked the engine over with the lead close to the rocker and got 2 sparks...

Then I hooked up a test light across the + and - terminals of the coils and spun the engine again, and nothing so likely points.

I also took a wire and ground the - coil terminal.  As soon as I let it off I got a nice spark from the HT lead.  So points it is.  Now I just need some time to play some more.

[metalhead]

Hey Scott,

Your car looks to be coming along well! Annoying about the ignition dramas.

Funnily enough I now have a tko600 sitting on the floor in my garage. What angle did you end up settling on for the engine and box, and did you end up raising the front of the diff? I'll measure things up before pulling out the engine and box, but it would be good to get an idea of where you are at with yours. I decided to keep my existing bellhousing and mechanical clutch linkage, ordered the box from Mal Wood  (cheaper with the current $ and freight/import fees), and a few Vette specific parts from Hurst (haven't arrived yet). What shifter is used in the American Powertrain kit? It doesn't look like the standard tremec shifter?

Cheers and thanks,

Andrew.